So I watched two Matrix like movies (World on a wire & The thirteenth floor) and this documentary and I’m back to the thinking world again.
What is life and how are we any different from, say, a rock? I can’t get my head around feeling like a character in video game. What if I’m told today by a supernatural being that this really is a simulation and I’m a Mario like character in it? What difference will this revelation make in my life? I don’t think it will bring any difference. I will keep suffering from same things I suffer now. The state I’m in, a factual truth won’t make any difference.
They say we’re aware of ourselves and our surroundings and that makes us different from animals and rocks. But our brain is a part of nature and product of ordinary evolution and so I don’t think our awareness is of any supernatural type. It is same as awareness of an animal, only a bit more complex. We can’t think independent thoughts. Our thoughts are based on memory and surrounding. Most of all, they’re limited by language. We just can’t think beyond our language and that’s quite a proof of their limitation.
I think what bothers me most is my suffering. If I’m part of nature, why am I suffering 24×7? Maybe suffering is part of nature, part of simulation? But suffering, by its very definition, means something is wrong.
In these movies they show that when a character becomes aware that his world is not real, he either goes mad or commits suicide or tries desperately to get into real world.
What about purpose? Purpose of a video game character is to win the game and reach its end. But then we should’ve been hardwired towards such a purpose. Why do we feel so meaningless and purposeless then?
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I think some suffering is a part of nature. The problem is… the word “some” can cover a wide range.
As for purpose, we’re all different. I guess it boils down to your likes, dislikes, knowledge, abilities, and all that type of stuff.
I will take suffering brought by physical and mental pain as part of nature. But the one that’s present all the time, whose source we don’t know, and which makes our life a waste, that.. well that shouldn’t be part of nature, because it will defeat their purpose (stability and survival). But what do I know, it may be some extreme form of natural suffering.
I wonder this too, but if it is a simulation, why do we have to deal with all the unpleasant and distasteful stuff?
I mean, our existence is almost unbelievable… it’s mind boggling to think about how we play out the cycles of our lives on a random sustainable habitat just floating (well, spinning, at more than 1600 km/h) in outer space, amongst other assorted rocks, debris, and planets, et cetera. How is it possible that we exist? Will we know the answers when we die, or is death just “lights out” and we won’t ever be given any kind of reasonable explanation? I guess no one knows in certainty… for now.
If I don’t off myself, I’m really hoping to witness the discovery of sentient life forms on other planets. Maybe this would help illuminate some of the questions and concerns that have plagued humanity for centuries.
I wrote a post here once about ‘simulated consciousness’ in which I discussed the possibilities of creating robots with human-like features and the ability to reason. My argument was that, if human consciousness only developed over time, why not allow robots the same leeway? We could manufacture robots who have sentient qualities and afford them the same rights as humans – it would only be fair.
On that note, dolphins (the sea mammal), are already considered non-human persons in some countries. Dolphins are very bright… It would be interesting to learn how much of their experience is comparable to that of human sentience. Do they ever struggle with existential depression? Ha.
Cockroaches and beetles have been living and evolving long before humans and will continue to do so long after we’re gone, busy rebuilding the world beneath our feet
@ nepheliad. Like Terminator….?
Lol, couldn’t resist…. Although that movie is a psychological hindrance to the progress and implementation of technology, it’s usually the first thing people bring up as “fact” when discussing this topic. I know there was resistance when Airbus introduced a plane with greater computer control yet the introduction of computers have saved many lives. Human error is still the leading cause of plane crashes.
“creating robots with human-like features and the ability to reason” – That’s an interesting idea. If our mind and consciousness is material/natural, it should be rather easy to transfer it in a robot. If our thoughts and awareness and ability to judge is actually a product of memory and surrounding, then we can transfer that memory in robots. For example: via books; Books can serve as a good source of human history and how they feel and react.
True, and the robot’s coding should be programmed so as to allow it to learn and understand over time, just like a human. I’d want the robot to be able to comprehend ‘feelings/empathy’ so it wouldn’t be just a computerized machine. Maybe it could have the potential to feel affection, and want to protect or take care of others, etc.
You should check out the movie Ex Machina, and also the Swedish TV show Real Humans (which you can watch with English subtitles). There was a British remake called Humans that aired its first season last year, I’d recommend that as well.
what you describe reminds one of the old twilight zone episode, “the lonely”, with jack warden. that was great tv.
youtube.com/watch?v=SyBHONkkBdM
We have to work off the current evidence that we have. That’s not to say that all of our collective knowledge base is fact. Some scientific theories have since been disproven.
I too often start to think, what if… and why… but this type of thinking can be circular. Having said that speculation can lead to observations of the world which may then lead to hypothesis and eventually scientific theories. You have to start somewhere.
Sometimes we have little choice, we must simply work within the parameters we are given and conform to societies norms in order to live. That doesn’t mean we need to like the world the way it is.
In regards to suffering, all humans do not suffer, some are in fact happy so perhaps suffering is an individual affliction brought on by our own particular environment. Which makes you think if there was a road to now maybe there is a road back out of suffering. I am not promising a happy ending, I understand that some situations are beyond repair, I’m just adding another point of view.
Our purpose can be defined on a biological level. Although reproduction in a world with over seven billion and where favourable characteristics and traits are not the sole measure involved with evolution of our gene pool one questions the benefit and need of reproducing. There are perceived benefits but I wont go into that now. So why not make your own purpose in life? If you find something which you are passionate enough about that can be reason or purpose enough. Many people devote themselves to sometimes selfless acts which give them meaning and as a by product can help others.
I miss these deep, philosophical posts on SP which make you reflect so thank you.
My last paragraph has got me thinking and I don’t know if that’s a good thing…
So part of our “purpose” as mentioned above is to reproduce to keep our species from going extinct.
We accept that mental health disorders sometimes have an underlying genetic base. That we can have a genetic predisposition. So knowing this are we not gambling with our children’s future mental health?
After giving this some thought I have come to the conclusion that it is no different to any of the other genetic based diseases that our children could potentially inherit. There are many and include some cancers.
I think the perceived and real world benefits of having children should out way any possible disadvantageous. And who knows, in the future we may be able to identify specific parts of our DNA and exclude the bad. From memory I think this splicing is already possible.
Also, if you start to question our influence on our children’s environment and health where do you stop? Is it perhaps better to have a form of mental illness than to be starving or having no prospect of education?
In the beginning I had gone very deep in trying to find biological and, taking it to next level, atomic purpose. But like everything this lead to rabbit holes. Since then I have, sort of, settled my reasoning on what you’re suggesting: Create my own purpose. But I just can’t bring myself to implementing it. Maybe because it sounds (to myself) madeup and fake. Or maybe because my body and mind have become so disconnected that my body now simply refuses to implement anything my reasoning tells it to.
In this case I believe the reason should be arbitrary. If you can implement an action which will lead to perceived purpose and therefore content it should take precedent.
What distinguishes human beings from robots is intent. Its always been a challenge for us to stay with the “right” intent in order to survive. People have known about the geometry of space for a long time, so you can make a robot do just about anything given that knowledge. The issue is in knowing what to do.
If our thoughts and decisions are learned things, then I guess we can make robots do that too. So from outside it will look like they’re acting same as humans. But yes, they won’t have the intent to do those things. They would simply be like following learned commands. But then there’s also this theory that perhaps these things like intent, will, self are actually illusions created by our brain to make sense of things. One would make same decisions with or without intent.
If robots ever surpass humans and take over, they’ll probably kill us last. They won’t kill every human though; the robots will keep a few token specimens and display them in zoos.
I was thinking about this the other day. What is a zoo? It’s a place to store captured animals and put them on display for the entertainment of the dominant species. (Humans are currently the dominant species). If robots have no use for humans, and if the robots treat useless items the same way that humans do then humanity is f*cked. Human beings created and programmed robots, so if the robots have been instilled with the same (dissonant) values common in society, the future for humans after the cyborg revolution seems rather bleak.
I wouldn’t worry about it though. This dystopia n nightmare is probably decades away. (Damn auto-correct won’t let me spell dystopia n).
Maybe they will also keep a few of us as pets.
Perhaps. Guess we should learn some cool tricks to keep our robot over-lords pleased.
How do you entertain a robot?
Humans are ok with a dog who can fetch or a cat that randomly knocks over vases and sleeps all day.
I suspect the robots will have higher standards for their pets.
I was just going to say that– we should learn some cool tricks.
We could start memorizing as many prime numbers as possible.
I’ve already got a head start on memorizing 200 digits of Pi; maybe they would appreciate that.
After the robots have taken over, you can rest assured that you’ll make a premium grade pet. The robots will say “ah, how cute. The simplehuman can recite 200 digits of Pi”.
Maybe they’ll enter you in pet show where you can compete against other human pets, and if you win you’ll get a box of chocolates and a pat on the head. Doesn’t that sound like something worth striving towards?
It’s more than I usually get on an average day, so yes.
Sign me up.
I can sing 200 digits of Pi while playing harp at the same time, so maybe that will help me squash the competition.
Wow. You can *sing* 200 digits of Pi?
Game over, you’re officially a top-shelf pet in the robot pet store.
Try not to die before the cyborg revolution goes down, you’ll be quite the hot commodity after the robots’ pet market materializes.
Yay!
Here are the first 197 digits; the next three are 5, 5, 5.
suicideproject.org/2016/03/possibility-of-drunken-cordless-heap-soon/
It will sound better with harp.