What do you do when you’re socially dead? When you’ve killed the part of you capable of relaxing or enjoying being around others? Whatever capacity I had for fulfilling relationships or friendships is gone. To just be in the moment with someone, to relate. To let go. I can’t interact without this constant shadow hanging over me. I can’t bring myself to be likable, or fun, or interesting anymore. I was never exactly the life of the party, but when I was a kid I at least had some semblance of personality. There was still something inside my shell that I would occasionally let out. I had ideas, I was enthusiastic and had a sense of fun. I’m sure plenty found me annoying, but there was at least a chance of connection, of mutual feeling. Now there’s just nothing.
The things I’ve done and what I know about myself overshadow every interaction. I have to hide, from everyone. Cover up the clues, so they don’t suspect. But this makes every conversation a chore. I can’t risk being spontaneous, or outrageous, or saying what I’m really feeling. Because what if I let something slip, and people get curious? It could all crumble down so easily. Everything I say is subconsciously filtered through a layer of caution.
So I’m dead, socially speaking. I have no prospects of meaningful relationships or real friendships. Being around others is something to endure. I have cast myself out from the tribe and any comfort it can bring. Being that alone is terrifying. It strips away all the traditional sources of meaning in life. Partner? Nope. Children? Hell no! Fulfilling career or achieving social status? Not possible. Tribal loyalties or heroic narratives? Long ago vanished.
If I were religious or at peace with myself, then perhaps I could find some level of comfort with this solitude. I could be a hermit or eccentric holy man, living in the wilderness. But I’m not. I have no overarching narrative of universal redemption, and no guiding light. I have no philosophy or social goal to bring to the masses. I just have me, and my aloneness.
I don’t think this is hell, but it’s certainly a step on the road. Imagine just you and your neuroses, your cravings, longings, self-hatred and regrets, for the rest of your life. With nothing to distract you but the cultural artefacts produced by others who aren’t in your desperate state. Imagine observing life from the outside, with your nose pressed up against the glass.
I know there are those who are happy with this level of isolation. I’m just not one of them. I am insanely introverted and shy, but I also need people, to give meaning to my life. So much of my time is spent trying to artificially simulate this need, but it’s all hollow.
12 comments
Isolation kills everyone equally, I think. The myth of a blissful holy man living on a mountaintop is exactly that: a myth. Sure there are monasteries and ashrams and religious retreats where people disconnect themselves from society, but those are still communities. Show me anyone who lives truly alone and I’ll show you someone who is insane, talking to the walls and drinking his own piss.
Of course that doesn’t help us to know. Just like I never got much comfort in knowing there are millions of other suicidal people. Humans need human connection, otherwise we’re just a tree falling in the forest that doesn’t make a sound. Pointless. Futile. Worthless.
It sucks for those of us who have reached this point. But as you said, it’s too late to turn back and be that outgoing child again. Maybe suicide is nature’s way of paring the herd when we’ve outlived our social contributions. To live isolated is to be unnecessary.
Hmmm, maybe the happy holy hermit is a bit of a myth, but I’m sure I’ve come across people who say they’re content in isolation. I’ve seen interviews with people who live alone in the wilderness and only occasionally enter civilization to get supplies, and they seemed pretty cogent. I do think people have different levels of social need.
But yeah, most of us do need that connection on some level. Feeling that you don’t exist socially is terrible – that you don’t matter, that no one knows you or really cares what you’re doing. You’re invisible to the world.
There may be some evolutionary factor in suicidal depression. Although I think that would have to depend on it being of some benefit to the rest of the tribe – which wouldn’t really apply to cases of complete isolation. If you’re isolated to the point where no one notices if you’re dead, there’s no genetic advantage for anyone in your death.
For me, I still have a faint link to others – just enough for me to not want to hurt them, but not enough to actually provide real meaning. I see my parents about once a week, and my sister a couple of times a year. I get little glimpses of people living life, hear about those I used to know getting married or having babies or changing careers. And I know killing myself would devastate them. And sometimes I care about that, and sometimes I don’t. It seems like a good reason not to overcome my fear of death (yet).
But it leaves me in this weird limbo space, where I don’t want to die but I don’t actually have anything in my daily life worth living for. And mostly I just want to distract myself from the pain of that – because it seems unbearable, and I can’t see a solution to it. But every now and then I feel the need to pick at it a bit, to clarify what I’m doing and look for some kind of escape. So I come here.
Great point about isolated people being a non factor in terms of evolution. I have to rework my theory. Maybe there are a rare few who are truly satisfied living on their own, and since they won’t procreate then nature needn’t worry about them passing on the hermit gene to future generations. The species at large will continue oblivious to them.
And you’re right, I’ve heard occasional news stories about some guy who shows up after living in the woods, or at sea, for years and just sorta vanishes again. All I can say is it must be nice. But isn’t that the definition of “selfishness”? To walk away from the human race, which we’re all equally guilty of? I believe our instinct to interact with other humans has the evolutionary purpose of improving the herd. No ship ever improved by everyone jumping ship.
So I guess what I’m thinking is that our frustrating need to connect with people might have a basis in doing “good”. By interacting with others of our species, even spewing words on a website like this, we’re exchanging ideas, experiences and knowledge. So maybe that’s why you maintain those weak links with people and to search for something worth living for (a purpose greater than eating and sleeping).
On the whole I think mother nature is a dumb b!ch who operates by trial and error, i.e. no intelligent motive. But you have to admit there’s a certain logic to people needing a purpose in life, and being tormented until they can find one. If it didn’t hurt so much I’d say it’s a pretty good scheme to get people off their asses and interacting and evolving as a whole. But then I remember that some of us are too far gone.
Yes, I envy those who can be that self-sufficient, to not need any validation by others. To just be enough, in yourself, purely on your own. Possibly a bit of an evolutionary dead-end, but if they’re happy by themselves then good for them.
I think my view of the evolution of social need is less pleasant than yours. For me, it’s more that those outside the tribe are far more vulnerable to predation and starvation, therefore less likely to survive and pass on their traits. “The lone wolf dies, the pack survives”. So when we feel ourselves becoming socially marginalized or isolated, it really hurts. Our instincts are effectively telling us that we have a life threatening situation that we need to somehow resolve.
There is an altruistic side to it, in that many of us also have an instinct to help others where we can. But the unconscious expectation there is that it’s reciprocal – when times get tough for us they’ll pay it back in turn. So we’re more likely to survive. I think this is neatly summed up in the proverb: “The best place to store leftover food is in your neighbour’s stomach.” In a tribal context, reciprocal altruism is an effective survival strategy.
You’re right, the “lone wolves” of any species are basically negligible. Whether they live or die it’s not going to affect the herd, and I’m sure psychologically it adds to the depression when you realize you’re one of the outliers.
One last pseudo-opitimistic thought though… These outliers are what lead to new mutations, evolutionary jumps and new species. The first tadpole who left the ocean billions of years ago was probably the most lonely creature that ever existed, but that eventually led to amphibians, land animals, humans and whatever follows (if anything). So maybe evolution does have a productive purpose even for the hopeless cases.
On the subject of altruism I agree the expectation of reciprocity is what screws things up. I remember seeing a homeless woman when I first got to the city and I handed her $20. She didn’t even say thanks, marched straight to the liquor store and spent it all. If I were truly selfless, I would say to myself that it’s her right. Maybe she’s suffering so much that a bottle is far better than a warm meal. But in the moment I just remember feeling “cheated” and deciding I wouldn’t do that again. My stupid thinking entirely. I guess I’m not spiritually pure enough to help others for the sake of helping. I was expecting a tearful show of gratitude and seeing her investing in her future or some fantasy delusion like that. How can there be any hope for a species when even the “helpers” are consumed by selfish expectations?
I don’t think that’s stupid thinking – I think it’s perfectly natural. We want to build up those that we help – because subconsciously we want them to be strong enough to help us in return when we need it. Helping people to continue hopeless cycles doesn’t feel good – they’re unlikely to ever be able to return the favor.
I would say the hope comes precisely from the fact that the instinct for altruism is built in to so many of us. It may depend on the hope of reciprocation, but that still gets you a long way. Most of us also have the desire and capacity to return favors, so in the right context it can be a win-win.
It’s not pure, and we are still ultimately animals, but if you have the resources and the strength you can really do a lot of good, and many capable people are.
1/2
Words are very limited when it comes to conveying some of the deep feelings that we go through. Only those who’ve experienced them can relate. Even then once you stop having those feelings they are difficult to fully recall.
For example until someone feels their life is at risk, say they fail an exam and think they’ll get kicked out of school/college or have a fight with family and face homelessness, then they’ll understand the real sense of panic, dread and fear for their lives.
Isolation/loneliness is definitely one of the worst feelings ever. I recall more than 10 years ago, I had unrelated arguments with several of my friends and for a while I really thought this is the end, I’m out of the group-things got ugly and we stopped talking for a while.
I used to have a bunch of friends from high school and figured I’d reconnect with them if I lost all my university friends, but even that’s hard because once people move away and drift apart, you can’t recapture what you’ve had before. They’d be ‘friendly’ but they had their own lives and people move one.
Fortunately a week or so after we became friends again and truthly I don’t even know what we argued about-but I realized I’m not one of those hermit type people. Even having family is not enough in your life and I decided I’m not going to put those connections at risk again since I need them in my life…at least until I find someone better.
I also reached out through work to try to make new friends but those relationships are always very shallow and once you’re grown-up most of your relationships are fixed and few people want newcomers in their life.
2/2
As humans we are social animals and need people in our lives. It seems in your case Husk, you’ve painted yourself into a corner because of the fear people will find out your deep dark secrets.
If you can’t be on good terms with ‘normal’ people, you could always join support or internet groups that did whatever you did-at least you could relax knowing that they’re all in the same boat with you.
By the time we hit middle-age we’ve mostly figured life out. The big question is do we accept our flaws, our mistakes, our limitations and keep going hoping that things will improve or do we head for the exits?
I was given a sht deal when it comes to a life. If someone told me my life would be mostly crappy with a little happiness I’d probably say forget it. At the same time though, if I wasn’t around my family members would suffer. My sister was bullied in school, if I wasn’t there to save her who knows what would happen to her.
My mother ended up alone once my siblings grew up and left….over time her health got worse. Without me she’d definitely have ended up on the street and could’ve died. Actually she’s also been a great help to me as well. Not to mention a thousand other good things I’ve done for the people in my life.
So I guess I was happy that I could help others but otherwise my life was not great and if I didn’t have any family to look after, then ending my life would’ve been an easier decision.
It seems you’re stuck in a rut which is one of the worst places to be. It’s better to shake up your life and make changes. I’m trying to do the same and I think I’m getting closer to the goal I’ve set for myself. If I succeed then I think I’ll be comfortable and happy the rest of my life and will get what I missed out on. If I fail I can say that at least I tried.
What you really need to do is to change up your life…try something new/different. I’ve read your posts for a few years and it appears you’re stuck in the same loop and the biggest obstacle is not other people but yourself and your own fear of trying something new and different. 20 years from now you’ll regret wasting all that time worrying about something that would never happen or was unlikely to.
Also it never hurts to talk with a therapist if you haven’t tried that yet. It didn’t do a lot for me but it was nice to talk to an objective person. At the end I knew I had to fix my own problems, she was very limited in what she could do and was caught up in her own life.
Painted into a corner is about right. I did join a couple of internet support groups for those like me a long time ago (it’s not something you find irl.) For some reason it only seemed to amplify the fear & shame. I also didn’t find I related to others that much – even within that tiny subset, people do things for very different reasons. Internet interactions are also somewhat artificial – they don’t provide real social comfort, only the semblance of it. You don’t get the same feeling you get from actually being around people.
I don’t think I can accept my flaws & mistakes, but I’m also not ready to head for the exit. Hence limbo.
You’re not wrong about trying new & different things. I just don’t have the energy or resources yet. At the moment I’m not making enough to support myself and my health is letting me down, so what little energy and focus I have has to go on that. If I ever get it sorted then maybe I can try some ideas to shake things up.
I’ve wasted so much time & money on therapists over the years. Some things it just doesn’t help to talk about.
I hear you, at least you did try the internet group thing and the therapy. You’re right internet relationships are shallow and mostly meaningless.
One wrong phrase and you can lose your ‘e-friend.’ So I’ve never put much stock in it myself….but it’s good for sites like this where you can exchange thoughts with people in a similar situation.
Sorry to hear about your health. You could also try exercise if you have the time for it. Unless you have a medical illness working out can make you stronger.
I’ve found that going to the gym lifted me out of my depression and I got in hella good shape in university, I just wish I could’ve stuck with it but I had no time.
It’s unfortunate that nothing else has worked out for you to improve your life, but some people just keep going on with living despite their problems, nothing wrong with that if you can live with those issues.
For me I’ve reached the age where if the quality of my life declines with no hope of improvement, I will simply end it because I’m truly sick of the struggle. I’ve worked hard all my life to get ahead, got a good education but none of that paid off.
Some people here have achieved financial success but they are still suicidal for other reasons. I know in my case that’s the only major limitation for me.
I guess we’re in the same boat in the sense-since while my life is better than 10 yrs ago, it’s still very far from the level I’d say I’m happy with, but my health is ok so I’m going to keep trying.
Hi Soda/Husk,
Apologies for chiming in here:
Soda,
I’ve been reading your posts for over 3 years now. Having a lot in common with me, you’ve certainly proven yourself — and your advice — to be of a top stature.
It is simply sad that we can’t pm one another here on SP (if this were an option, it would’ve been less daunting to capture conversation and hope someone might respond seeing it.)
What did you study? Reading your post resonates with mine: I completed my engineering degree and unable to re-enter the workforce. The stress this causes me is enormous. Moreover, I failed a couple ‘cognitive ability’ tests therein taking a huge hit to my self esteem. My early dreams of becoming a scientist is completely lost now and I simply don’t see it possible anymore. (Studies show how depression can have a direct knock to even your IQ level.)
It sucks how the world — after so much time we’ve spent obtaining tertiary tenure — tell us how despicable we are, small nuances to show us our non-importance and that all the time and money we spent is down a massive worm-hole. And then, apparently, we are told after spending nearly the price of 4 small cars, that the world doesn’t owe us a ‘job’.
Husk:
The emptiness of loneliness cannot be described. As an incel, I certainly can attest to the misery of being a ‘cast away’. The Pareto curve shows us clearly that the older we get the less elasticity we possess to extract from life; that is is also true for socialising, unfortunately.
Funny enough, I see it in reference to infatuation: as an older man in my 30’s I am still attracted to the prime of young women (21-24) and want no older. Interestingly, there is a saying in my language ‘die ou bok soek die jong blaar’ translating to ‘the old goat wants the young leaf’.
What is true with women is true in life: the teenage dream is still logged for long after it has surpassed. It is a mere flicker, passing without warning to never return again.
I will reply in a longer thread to you, husk, as well. Both of you have been here for a few years and I am afraid you will stop posting. 🙂
Hi Tired,
You can use this link to see if anyone replied to your posts, pretty handy:
https://suicideproject.org/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?comment_status=approved
Hopefully it works for you. I’m not here often, but check in occasionally.
I have a degree in the science field as well but I prefer not to get into any specifics here. I’ve also experienced setbacks that kept me out of my field, usually my interviews went well, but in most cases it was issues in my life that prevented me from landing that position.
Unfortunately that is the case, we put our blood, sweat, tears (and lots of money) in a high-end education but then get burned after. Generally though if we had degrees in medicine or completed technical programs, you’re pretty much guaranteed to find work.
I appreciate the compliments, I recall your name but vaguely remember your posts since I haven’t seen them in a while.
I plan to stick around for now so long as my life continues to get better…I’m working on accelerating that process.
You’re in your 30s, so you’re still fairly young, make the most of it if you can-I wish I was still in my 30s I would’ve played my cards better. If you have medical reasons stopping you from getting ahead I can understand.
But as for jobs, don’t give up. I made that mistake and settled for a low-end career, it puts you in a low-end life…I realized eventually I knew I would’ve gotten a good position if I kept at it.
However I had a Plan B, which is what I’m working on now that’s going to get me much further ahead, so that’s why I didn’t invest more time in ‘Plan A.’
As for women, almost all men at any age want a younger woman…good for child-raising too if you plan to have any. We’re a little sexist in that sense but it’s also biology.
If you stay fit, healthy, have a good income and are mentally stable, happy/positive and attractive to women then you won’t have a hard time finding one. Some of them are easy to get if you have the resources, but that’s the key, become established first.