I’ll try this again:
This is not about debating religion. This is about religion’s direct sociological and psychological pressures that result in suicide and a host of other “retaliations”.
The main purpose of religion is to oppress the masses and extract goods or labor from them to supply the ones at the top of the “social pyramid†example: the Pharaohs, Shamans, Kings, Priests, Reverends, Dictators, Presidents, etc.
In ancient religions, the gods they worshiped example: Amun Ra, Zeus, etc., displayed very primitive human traits. They were known to be violently inhumane and incredibly unfair at times. The gods practiced behavior similar to what a baby might grow up to be like, if not influenced by religion, government or teachings of “humanityâ€. The gods acted on impulse and primal instinct, like an animal.
The problem with these ancient gods, is that followers have a tendency to try and emulate the ones they worship. The Pharaohs, Kings, etc. could not easily suppress the masses, if the masses reacted on instinct, impulse and primal behavior, as this often caused mutiny and revolution.
Over time, the leaders of “social pyramidsâ€, learned to introduce more passive, submissive gods like Jesus Christ and Buddha. By making the masses emulate such a passive, harmless entity, the leaders could extract more and more resources and labor from the masses, without the chance of revolt.
The only problem was that the ones in control must breed out the impulsive and primal reactions of humans. They must brainwash the masses into reacting in a way that is not natural to them.
Every major religion preaches of such things as “turning the other cheekâ€, forgiveness of your enemies, practicing peace and never responding violently.
Our government systems are based on the same psychology. As a child, you are for the most part, allowed to behave without repercussions example: playing army with your friend in the isles of a grocery store, pretending the be Harry Potter and banishing a neighbor to Haiti with your magic wand. If you even demonstrated the same thoughts as an adult, you would be medicated and locked away.
Some time between childhood and adulthood, society begins it’s “brainwashing†on you and teaches you about being a “law abiding citizenâ€, “morally justâ€, “model citizenâ€, “good Christian†“Well adjusted member of societyâ€. The whole idea is to get you used to becoming passive and playing your role in society, while the ones in control strip you of the fruits of your hard labor through things such as tithes, taxes, etc., offering you very little in return. The masses don’t revolt to this rape and pillaging of their resources, as they’ve been brainwashed not to.
The problem with this has always been that not everyone is easily brainwashed. Most are, but not all. Some have keen insight and see it for what it is. These people preach about the problem and are often called “paranoid†or “conspiracy theorists†or “nutsâ€, by the masses, who have also been brainwashed to shun non-conformity, for obvious reasons. Many lack keen insight, but still have the impulse and primal reaction, to rebel or conflict with the brainwashing. Since this usually occurs as a direct response, at the time society is trying it’s hardest to brainwash you and that time in your life is between childhood and adulthood, this rebellion or conflict with society’s brainwashing is called “teenage angst†or “hormonesâ€.
As time goes on, the ones in control get greedier and greedier, imposing harsher rules and regulations on the masses. The result of this is that more and more of the masses conform to stricter and stricter regulations. This also leads to more extreme failures for the ones who don’t naturally conform.
Our society is now filled with masses of ultra-conformed zombies, who gladly give their money away to false ideas of world peace whether it’s through god or government. They blindly chase after high-priced material assets that promise fulfillment, while the one’s in control funnel more money off the top of their paycheck and then more money off the top, as they buy the high priced items. It’s also filled with more cases of people losing their fu(k!ng minds, because of the inability to adapt and conform. Some conflicts between people’s primal thought process and brainwashing, leads to a “monster hybridâ€, like the “crazy christian lady†in one of the links above. Some people unable to adjust, go to extremes such as heavy drug use, extremities such as cutting, violent behavior or even SUICIDE.
I hope I’ve cleared up why I found these links relative to your site. I’ve posted many entries on society’s conformity and the backlash. I just felt like this particular entry should point out one of the main contributors to our problems: Religion.
28 comments
Nolen i don’t think you’re looking at this right mindedly. The entire reason that there are such strong natalist tendancies fraught throughout society is because of hundreds of years of christian dogma. If anything the pervasity of the abarhamic faiths is a strong reason many people don’t commit suicide. Also let me take a wild stab in the dark nolen and guess that you hate william lane craig?
Stop bitchin about religion. all religions are cults. I say if you really want to be a rebel. Then scientology. Try it.
Society. Wanted(NEEDED) religion. Cause back in the day. The black death. AKA the the plague sweeps across europe. Eliminating half the Europe’s Population. And that was just the plague. People were dropping dead all the time. No antibiotics. & flu pandemic’s.
And the government & church and hell thing. Back in in the day. Was to stop people from killing & rapping. Burn in hell forever. I know what i’m sayin.
Government control’s people. who elects the government.? We do.
You guys are lost…good luck.
Religion is oppression. The only reason Christianity doesn’t condone suicide, is because everyone knows there’s no heaven and it’s impossible to collect tithes from a corpse. Beyond whatever resources and labors you will spare, religion has no need or want of you. If religion can be proven to have a positive role in any society, it is purely a bi-product and probably something candy coated.
Some of you people are so quick to point a finger to anyone who might suggest that you could fix your OWN problems with a little effort. The poor emo kid’s worst nightmare. He might lose his identity in becoming happy or experiencing some sort of gratification.
It’s fine though, reply away. I’ll keep doing what I do and you guys can keep whining and screaming “poor me”. I’m not looking for you, I’m looking for the ones who give a damn and have a will to try and understand the world and better navigate it. The ones who are afraid to explore different perspectives that the mainstream are as useless to me as the mainstream itself. I’m looking for the ones with enough insight to understand the nature of man and the role we are play in this grand design we call society. If I disturbed you belief in omnipotent carpenters and fat jolly pedophiles, you’ll understand if I don’t apologize. I can say with certainty that christianity, just as other abrahamic religions, have oppressed to the point of suicide on many occasions, as well as homicides and the favorite of religious fanatics, genocide. If you’re not willing to be part of the solution, might I suggest the helium hood method. It’s painless…for cowards. You should have no problem getting it right.
Donnie makes a good point: society needed religion to behave as a moral compass, And provide a reason to live because they didnt have one themselves. I like to think we’ve evolved beyond that but it not my call.
Religion makes some people happy. What I don’t understand is, why would you want to take that away from them? That’s just mean. Can’t you put your personal agenda aside if it makes someone happy? Live and let live. You’re being a hypocrit by trying to control everyone by ramming your philosophy down their throat
It’s good to see that some are good and fighting mad here. I thought I was the only one with a pulse. Religion/oppression only pleases through delusions. The seasons don’t change because you believe in the leaves. No matter how much you want to believe it. Religion is a way to make the oppressed believe that they have control and freedom. I’m simply trying to clarify the situation, rather than let people decide to end their life, under false pretenses. The truth may be a jagged little pill, but you had best to swallow it, because there are far worse fates than suicide.
Bravo, one_day!!!
I’m glad someone had the audacity to show a little aggression. Perhaps you could coach Donnie and The Scar on self-defense. My beliefs and concepts are far from hypocritical. They force no one to be submissive little bitches, they don’t persuade anyone to pray to a celibate twit whenever a problem arises and they offer no candy coated salvation. It is what it is.
Nolen, i didn’t reply because i didn’t feel as though your response had anything to do with my post. If you’d like to talk past me then have at it. I don’t know what religous persons your’re refering to donnie is mentally insane and i’ve never claimed to be any any sense religous. If you have something to say in response to my posts then i’ll glady engage, wholly anticipating a megolomanic fit the likes of which are only overshadowed by Peter Atkins et al.
If moral compass equals: “Emulating a submissive, pushover is the only reason I don’t kill myself” exactly how far do you people actually plan on making it? Life DOES take some effort and ambition, you know. How many years will you spend on the brink of giving in and not doing it, because of the belief in something so passive that you have no place in life, but at the brink? This psychology is self-destructive and hypocritical in itself. If they’re true christians, why don’t they simply pray to be happy. And what “all-loving” god, wouldn’t grant them happiness? I know, god has to put you through tests of fate right? I guess it’s the devil that puts the hood over your head and releases the helium. How pathetic. These lazy ass, self-pittying, recluses finally get one thing right (suicide) and they give the credit to a horned pitchfork holder. May Darwin skull-fu(k the christians in the afterlife. LOL
Thank you, I will.
You ARE being hypocritical. You deny people their basic human right to practice whatever religion the chose – that is oppression, the very same thing you chide religion for doing. Yet your only alternative to religion is nihilism – how is that supposed to help anyone? I’m not religious, and I don’t think nihilism is the only other option.
Christ was far from submissive. He actually did a lot, I don’t know what because I haven;t studied it, but you gotta figure that it takes a degree of effort for the dominant religion to change from judaism to christianity overnight. There was a lot of wondering around the desert, and some guy got nailed to a cross, I hear.
I think you’re incorrectly blaming religion for the fact that there are a lot of automotons in the world. Truth is, they would exist anyway. The majority of people are sheep, and NOT free thinkers. Whether it’s religion or goverments or kim fucking kardashian that controls them, that is their fate – to be controlled. As far as a controlling influence goes, I don’t think christianity is a terrible one.
Now the real question is: why you respect aggression over kindness? It’s a little sociopathic, don’t you think? Are you just being provocative, or are you really that mean?
These are two sources that verify my perceptions. They are lengthy, but if you would like to suggest links that credit your views, I would be glad to read and/or view them. I have read the bible (King James and NIV).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddsz9XBhrYA
http://vimeo.com/13726978
The bottom line, is that science simplifies complex things, while religion complicates simple things. If people are to get to the bottom of things, they best leave the bible on the table and do some real research.
Unrelated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JBQpTxXisg&feature=related
one_day,
You blog on a site titled Suicide Project. There are over 20 thousand posts and many of them are from people pushed to the brink of self-termination by the people around them who are supposed to be the most beneficial to them.
I will take the term “Sociopath” as a complement. Ever stop to think that all this regurgitation of passive, b.s. in futile in the construct that you live in? And when you say “their basic human right”, are you giving me a rendition of something mentioned in the Constitution? You do realize that the construct that is based on this “Constitution”, is the one and the same that condemns and damns most people on this site, don’t you? Religion and Constitutional rights: People are so quick to pick and choose what they need to make their point valid.
I like to rely on my own mind to make sensible choices and therefore, will claim no book or set of rules and regulations to abide by. We all have common sense, some more than others, but we all know how to behave humanely. If you want to use a particular set of rules to back your claims, that’s fine, but you cannot turn around and tell me how you hate the constructs which are based on the same rules and principles.
Am I attempting to provoke people on this site? Yes! And hopefully in the attempt to defend themselves, they will explore the rules and regulations they hold dear and truly determine if it’s suited for them. On a related topic, you do realize that according to the 2000 year old, fairy tale: Those who take their own lives, are not loved by the “All loving” god.
I support my claim with the fact that the judaic god states that life is the gift of god. To deny life, would be to deny his power (also known as the holy spirit, or workings of the holy spirit). To deny is to blaspheme “matthew 12: 31-32” and to blaspheme is to condemn oneself to Hell.
I’m only asking that people do research and stop taking ideas out of context. You can’t hold society responsible for pushing you to the brink of suicide, then use the construct of that society, to back claims. I also don’t see the sanity behind worshiping an entity, who will punish you for eternity for refusing to live in a society who claims to worship the same entity. The “all loving” god, who does he love, you or them? If he loves you both, why does he sit idly by and let them punish you? I wouldn’t let my beloved family members cause the hurt or punishment for eternity in a pit of fire, to one of my other beloved family members. Use your mind and stop picking and choosing “great words” of gods and forefathers and all the others who have failed this project we call society.
It’s not all down to Christianity. It’s the hole how society feel’s. Say a friend off them self. How that make you feel.? Guilty right. Even if there was no Christianity suicide would be viewed the same way.
Most people are on this site, because society has failed them. Society includes family, friends, religion, government, etc. In order to progress to a place of true gratification, you MUST see beyond all these things. You cannot pick and choose. For the ones who wish to wallow in self-pity: The above constructs will offer you as much time as you want, as long as you contribute to taxes, tithes, morality, etc. For those looking for a better life: You can think like the “sheeple” and buy yourself empty, luxury items and perform meaningless rituals. For those who are open-minded and want more from this one chance at life: You’re going to have to step back, look at ALL of it objectively and IMMEDIATELY DROP all the b.s., no matter how many people say it’s accurate. Until then, you are doing no good for yourself or anyone else.
Donnie:
No other animal on this planet practices religion. No other animal on this planet commits suicide. Do your research. I AM correct. You can say it’s because we’re more intelligent than any other animal, but in the evolutionary, biological scheme of things, wouldn’t suicide be the most ignorant choice possible?
A wise man once said “Stupid people will do stupid things, smart people will do smart things, but if you want smart people to consciously do stupid things, you’re going to need religion.” I find the quote amusing, do you?
Society has failed them.? What you mean people.? I’m here cause i fucked my life up. Me. As for people. If you want to do the blame game.? Ok. @Nolentwohundred At the end of the day. It’s down to you. You choose your friend’s right. Who fucked you up.
Whale’s do.
I have to log off for a while, but I’ll be back on later. I’d like to thank all of you for your opinions, whether they conflict with mine or not. If we do not engage in debate, our journey for wisdom ceases. I wish you all an educational journey today.
Later,
Nolen TwoHundred
Why Do Whales and Dolphins Strand Themselves on Beaches.? I say it’s suicide. Not sure about the if they do the hole religion thing. Later man & chill.
To what do you back your claim? Beached whales? LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beached_whale
There’s no such thing as Santa, the easter bunny, monsters in your closet, or emo whales…sorry.
Nolen, i’m glad to hear that you’re open to ejucating yourself with discourse, i wish you would be equally as open to see your faults. When you make these responses they very marginally glance the original posts. It seems like your agenda derails your posts; as though you read a comment and it puts one or two ideas in your head and then you take those ideas and go off on a tangent that strays miles away from what the person actually wrote.
Can you make your intention clear? What is it that you’re trying to accomplish with these discussions? You realize that most people here are sturggling with depression,relationship problems,medical ailtments etc. What do you think it’s going to help to drag up these religous debates. Most people here don’t want to debate political philosophy.
I’m trying to help.
education*
You say:
“that science simplifies complex things, while religion complicates simple things”
Ha! That’s an oversimplification if I ever heard one. It is also a very transparent way of framing opinion as fact.
I’m not going to bother reading your links, because doubtless they will only be someone else’s opinion (albiet, more cleverly disguised as fact than you’re capable of) and will ‘prve’ nothing, because it’s impossible to prove a theological entity. Anything found on the internet is hardly a reliable source.
When I say ‘basic human righ’ I am actually reffering to basic human rights as described by the United Nations. Your american ‘Constitution’ does not concern me, I am not american.
You say:
“I like to rely on my own mind to make sensible choices and therefore, will claim no book or set of rules and regulations to abide by.”
Yet you provide external links that are supposed to prove your ‘independant thought’?
I agree with donnie: You can’t chide religion for not wanting you to kill yourself, if you’re not going to chide your friends nad family for the say thing. If people love you, its not fair to blame them for that. Also, you convieniently forget how many peoples religious spirituality SAVES them from suicide. Bit unfair to only look at the negative aspects.
How many religious people hold society responsible for their suicide? I agree that would be hypocritical. But I don’t think this is really a characteristic of religious people. Seems more common in athiests and nihilists. Religious people live in a framework where evil is convieniently superimposed onto the devil, and external entity, hance convieniently alleviating the need to ‘blame society’. They’re not the one whinging about how ‘society is to blame’.
Animals don’t have higher brain function. Their brain is not so evolved they don’t have the cerebral cortex which is the part of the human brain which deals with awarenes, consciousness, and critical thought (so-called: ‘free’ thought). That is why they don’t suicide. Except for dolphins, that is. They’re pretty smart. Anyway, it’s got fuck all to do with religion. It’s do do with higher thought processes.
Scar makes good points. You’re singular and non-focused in your arguements. You fail to address many finite and rational points that others have raised. This is obviously a personal vendetta with not much logic. This rant is getting tedious. Colour me bored. I doubt I’ll respond again, I don’t see the point. Good day.