Guilty or Innocent by Reason of Insanity?

There are a lot of philosphical questions in there (dualism,existentialism,determinism) but it’s late so i can’t bother you with my musings right now haha lucky you. It’s a little of both though, your brain is predisposed towards certain attitudes, but you have a say in it as well. That’s good though, don’t think of it as being “guilty” think of it as an opportunity to rewrite that programming.

@Duke Of Marmalade,Lucy4,One_Day You guys should just make a post everyday titled “the garbage bin” where you can go on about horses and kit kats without hijacking others posts lol.

@surfer Your conclusions are extremely pressumptuous and the sophomoric smugness in which you assert them doesn’t help your case. The most neurologists have been able to show is a 60% accuracy in determining weather or not someone would press a button, which as you can see is incomparably different from a multifacted decision such as suicide.

@Black Swan I’m going to outline a few topics that your post brushes over. This will be an extensive, albeit expedient analysis, so i understand if you don’t want to read over all of it, but as you may already know i’m very much interested in philosophy.

1. Determinism- Determinism is the philosophic view that for anything that happens in the world, there are conditions such that nothing else could of happened, but what actually did. Determisim has long been favored in the sciences, but has recently been challenged by the seeming fortuitousness of Quantum Mechanics.

If it is the case that Determinism is true, then clearly free will does not exist. Unless, you’re a Compatabalist(someone who defines free will in such a way as to coexist with Determinism) I do believe it’s very likely that determinism is true, however the appeal to authority adduced by surfer202 is laughfably weak.

As for my personal views on this i lean in favour of a Pragmatic Theory of Truth. That is to say, because Determinism being true in no way alters or changes the inherent sense of choice that we have, we are entitled to think it true that it is the case the we do in fact make choices.

2. Tabula Rasa- is the view that all humans, when born, are essentialy a “blank slate”, and that whatever they become thereafter is learned from the external world. Modern biology/neurology is showing more and more that this is absolutely not the case. Much of what we are is written into our genes. This doesn’t, however, entail that you’re unable to rewrite your thought processes. For instance, a man may be born especially predisposed to bouts of rage, but this doesn’t mean that with counseling he cannot placate his anger. I think you(black swan) have shown in your posts an intellect and strenght such that you could probably rewrite these values of yours.(but that’s just my two cents.)

3. Dualism- Dualism in regards to the Philosophy Of Mind is the view that the mind and body are two fundementally different entities. If you adhere to some sort of dualistic dichotomy, e.g body/soul, then it may not be the case that the thoughts your brain forces upon you are necessarily your own. I won’t get into my own views, but whether or not you believe that there exists such a thing as a soul and that it interacts with your mind will answer your question there.

4. Existentialism- Is a “catch-all” term to characterize certain philosophies which share in common a few central themes, i.e the individuals existence. On Existentialist philosophies existence precedes essence, that is to say, the essence of ones self is made by the way that person chooses to exist, and one should not go about there lives acting as though the actions they make are in fact predermined or necessary. Existentialsm recognizes the inherent “anxiety” of the humans ability to freely choose in a world where one may make the wrong decision and must take responsibility for that decision instead of blaming it on external forces.

These are just a few topics that i thought may be of relevence to you Black Swan. I guess to sum it all up i would say this. It’s likely the case that Determinism is true, however even if it were true it would never extinguish our perception of choice and for this reason we should go about out lives believe that we do in fact act freely. Our physiology,genetic inheritence, social upbringing, and so forth very much shape the people we are, but in no way necessitate what we will remain as such. We create our essence each day as we act in this world and the values we hold are subject to change.

If i can offer my candid opinion, it seems like you come to the battlefield already believing that whether or not you’ve won or lost has been predetermined. I think if you do want to be successful in living here that you should believe that it is in fact possible to change the values you hold and that the predispositions your mind forces upon you are in fact surrmountable.

It certainly is possible. I don’t mean to be insulting but if i may ask, are you trying to find a way to live, or have you already decided that you want to die? I’m just asking this as a matter of fact question no different than if i asked whether or not it was raining.

Well, the reason i asked is because there really are some things i’ve wanted to say to you. The reason you ellicit such vigour in me is because the values that you seem to hold are 100% opposite my own. I’m only speaking of course of things like fame and wealth and things of that sort. Obviously you have wonderful moral values and what not.

If you were willing to hear me out, i really do feel like i may be able to sew some seeds of doubt that may help you to “rewrite” some of those materialistic values that you say you no longer want.

I missquoted that at the end sorry. What i meant was “Those who desire everything will find nothing; those who desire some things will usually find them.”

I define success as contentment, which is of course relative. If a person is content with their life than they are successful. I think that seems reasonable. For me personally wealth,physical appearance,and social standing are all things that make me very unhappy so they have no bearing on my success in life.

I admit i phrased that poorly what i should of written is “have no necessary bearing on success.”

If these things are what you need in order for your life to be successful then i think you should strive for them, but i was under the impression that you wanted to get rid of these values.

Please do, i’m sorry that i write so formally; i’m not used to talking with people. Just say whatever’s on your heart; i will as well. As i briefly described in the section on Existentialism, i think everyone has to decide for themselves what direction their life will take. All i can do is give you my personal opinion, and truly i think that if people are to be happy in this world or any other, they will at some point need to learn to be content with themselves and not base their lives soley on others perceptions.

Don’t get me wrong, i think it’s important to care what others thing, but there’s a difference between being considerate of others opinions and allowing those opinions to mold you against your will.

Let me put it like this, if it’s important to you to appeal to others superficial perceptions of yourself and you don’t want that to go away, then that’s fine, i would only try and convince you to tone it down so it doesn’t devour your life like it has.

If you do want to get rid of those feeling completely, then i would point out that there are plenty of people out there who don’t consider physical beauty/social standing as constituting a beautiful person. It is possible to live life cultivating your insides and to love yourself aswell as being loved by others.

By the way, I think you’ve said society at least 2 times now, and legend has it that if you say it three times in a row after the sun has set the Nolentwohundred will appear. Be careful.

Yeah, i think enviorment in this case is probably a huge factor. What is your job like runway model or something? Maybe you could look into finding work around where you are.