Reasons for suicide and Reasons to live

@blip:

LOL!

I say we have a straight up showdown. He who enforces his laws the hardest, wins.

Conflict is, imo, an acquired taste.

Actually, i usually avoid it. It’s just that theism really grinds my gears.

Either way, i’m tired of making excuses and apologizing for my own existence.

I both pity and loathe them all. I usually try to treat anyone with respect and dignity, unless they start trying to use “jesus” or “god” as a valid solution to any problem. I just can’t tolerate that.

It’s okay though, because someday i will be dead, and all those theists won’t have to worry about anything i say, anymore.

@E2N:

A little overlap (or would that be underlap?) commenting delays and such.

It’s cool. I would say that, more often than not, i actually try to avoid the “grrrr go away religious bastard” approach. Not that i don’t feel that way, i just try not to make it about that. I want to allow them to participate, but if it’s going to be “the answer is jesus” every single time, then okay, we’ve already heard that thousands of times, and that “solution” has not worked. So… it’s not “the answer” after all. lol.

I was actually laughing at the severity and harshness evident in the hhm thread. Even the slightest mention of an afterlife or the possibility of a god, people were /disgusted/. lol!

From what i’ve seen, it hasn’t been anywhere near that hostile since i’ve been here.

Oh really? Are you sure? Have you seen the christopher hitchens documentary about mother teresa?

Granted, however, in many parts of the world, abusive partners (typically men) provide their victims (typically women) with food and shelter, and even gifts. Without enduring the abuse, they would be deprived.

Part of the problem i have is how “everyone” seems to suggest that all good is God’s doing, while all bad is not. Therefore, if anyone helps anyone, it’s because God, and if anyone hurts anyone, or simply refuses to help, then it’s because Satan.

Is any “religious” person ever responsible for their own actions? Is a human being capable of doing anything good on their own? Do the religious believe that humans are only capable of kindness toward others, due to divine intervention? Do they believe we have free will?

It’s like people seem to think that “because God,” is the only valid excuse to do anything good. Without God, without the fear of punishment, would the religious people still do good acts? Even with their current fear of punishment, they still often neglect to refrain from causing needless suffering to others… possibly because they are “bent” on their own definition and motivation for good.

If someone is suffering greatly, well, “god works in mysterious ways,” and “he’s testing you because he loves you so much.” How about giving me a break, instead? How about giving me an opportunity to do more than just suffer? How about a chance to make the world a truly better place? No? Well, then “his will be done,” and He apparently intends the world to be what it is, which includes “evil.”

That line of thought really upsets people… and like i said recently, it’s because critical thinking reveals the obvious contradictions in the constructs, and shows that they are indeed “constructs,” instead of a view of reality with any semblance of clarity and merit.

So yeah, like i often do, the distinction must be made:

It’s great that something motivates people to act charitably… but that motivation should come from within, without expectation of a divine, eternal reward, of supernatural origin.

I can’t help but be frustrated when attempting to imagine what my life might be like, what advances i might contribute to, were i never obstructed by the copious obstacles that rampant religion has injected into, and imposed upon, my life. Who would i be, if i didn’t have to “fight religion” the whole way? I can’t help but think i’d be better off without that type of impedance.

@scar:

“You have a lot of time and effort to spend on something you see as being utter nonsense, clevername.”

Yeah… i’ve referenced that very same irony, many times. It seems like i do, but i don’t. The time and effort spent in these ways, is like “stealing/borrowing from peter, to pay paul.” I really don’t have it to spare… but then again, i’m not really doing anything else. Someone’s gotta do it. Might as well be me. If not me, then who?

It’s just “one of those things.” I try not to let myself spend any time on “it,” but i just can’t let it go on without at least saying something. That’s just my “lot,” i guess.

@PainNlife:

“I dont knock anybody for what they believe in because I dont care as it does not affect me.”

No offense dude, but that is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. It absolutely does affect you, and me, and everyone else. Everything everyone does is based on their beliefs. Every action of another human being, is based on what that person believes. Unless you live in an isolated microcosm, the actions of other human beings, absolutely will “affect you.”

Actions shape the world, and actions come from beliefs. What the largest number and most influential people “believe,” is the cause of their actions, which shape the world.

What shapes will the world take, if the most repeated and influential actions are based on False Beliefs? A world based on lies, averse to truth, afraid of reality, unwilling to understand the sources of the problems that need solutions, and not continued denials.

I could go on and on… and on…

But i’m trying not to spend so much of myself on futile things… even when i feel it in my very bones, that i must.

I partially agree with your aversion to the belief debate.

But it’s not “pointless,” as attempting to assist someone else in gaining a better understanding of their environment, does actually have a point, and is the point.

Some simply choose to be delusional, but others are involuntarily mislead into false constructs. Some are actually receptive to new information.

Dismantling the system of indoctrination, attempting to cease its perpetuation, is the point.

If you think “seeing the shape of a duck in the stars” is a reasonable basis for asserting that “a duck controls the universe,” then you are either incapable of, or disregarding, reason. There is no justifiable connection between those two ideas. I would say “it’s a huge leap of logic,” but it’s more a huge failing of logic. Actually, such a claim would make someone seem as though they don’t even understand what “logic” means. An unreasonable person who ignores logic, is basically just an animal.

The point of “trying,” is to find those who are better than “just animals,” and to attempt to produce the intended results of revealing the true nature of things, so that better understandings can proliferate throughout the populous, /eventually/ resulting in changing the world for the better.

You are probably right that someone who chooses delusion, cannot be persuaded or corrected… but someone who does not intend to be delusional, would be much more likely to receive, consider, and understand, any potentially enlightening revelations.

The only reason i try, is because i need a reason to remain in this terrible world… and so, that reason often comes down to trying to change what needs changing, so that the world can be gradually closer to what i, and many others, would have wanted it to be. And why am i “qualified” to determine which direction the world should go? Because i took it upon myself to spend the time and effort required, to dig into the sources of the problems i could understand, so that i would have a better understanding of the world… and so i could see how to change what could and should be changed, and make reasonably accurate predictions about where those changes would lead.

Far from pointless. But probably not a way to produce results that i will ever see. Maybe in a hundred or two years, things will be better for those who live then, because of the better understanding i tried to share, today.

Most of my life resides in yesterdays, today is all but done. The gift of my present, primarily consists of my presence in a time and world where too many important things are wrong, causing my incompatibility with my environment, leaving me with a “ruined” life. So… all i really have left to think about, is “tomorrow.” I guess it makes me feel a bit better, sometimes, to know… that i am one of the few who gives enough of a damn, to keep trying to accomplish something “for the greater good,” which will never yield, for me, a tangible reward. Hopefully, my efforts will result in better understanding, solved problems, and reduced suffering.

The “delusion” i choose, is because i need to feel like things can be made to be better, if we just keep trying, and figure out all the right ways and places into which to spend time and energy.

But i will reiterate: i do understand the feeling that “convincing” people who lack the tools to avoid being wrong in the first place, that they are wrong… does seem pretty futile, quite often. But like i said, i try for those willing to learn. The rest are just animals.

Also, i want to add: a “terrorist” is someone who uses fear to manipulate others. All governments do this. Most organized religions do this. Pay close attention to who uses that word, and how they use it.