I dislike the concept of both. One you have to live forever doing nothing but praising god for all eternity and the other you burn for all eternity. I think I actually prefer oblivion…. Like the state before birth or at least an afterlife where you get to relive your happiest times….
When people ask if there’s a heaven and/or hell… it’s because their BS meter is still working, and it’s telling them something is wrong with what they’ve been told.
Honestly though, how can you even answer such a question?
You know what i like to say? (aside from “No!”)
“How is anyone supposed to know?”
Get them thinking about How anyone can know something that we can’t test, let alone even observe.
I mean it’s all fine and good to make correlations to states of mind, but that was not the intention of the stories of those concepts. Religion doesn’t tell people that hell is a state of mind we experience while alive, nor does it say that about heaven. It tells us about these concepts in order to create a control paradigm based on fear and reward.
Whether or not the original concepts were intended to be used in such a way, will likely remain a mystery. What is pretty clear, is that some valuable concepts were used to manifest and perpetuate an ecosystem dependent upon psychological enslavement.
@Pain yeah I’m with you on pretty much everything you said. I feel like my state of mind currently is like hell 75% of the time, purgatory 20%, and heaven 5% (Sleep lol)
@clever I guess my BS meter hasn’t exploded yet because I do believe in love and self-love (wherever they come from, be it a God, the universe, or dopamine lol) being the key to prospering in life. You could also call it self-belief, or whatever. Yeah you’re right it’s unanswerable so it’s like why ask? For me, I ask because it’s something that still interests me even though it’s unknowable. I think I’m leaning more towards Buddhist philosophy with it being a state of mind rather than Christianity or Judaism seeing as they focus on actual places. But in a weird way that I’ll never be able to explain with words because they are so very limiting, I think it’s all trying to get at the same thing, essentially. It’s all the same.
@RT30 I barely ever understand what exactly you mean but I almost alway laugh/like it. Keep it up!
I also don’t understand how people could be happy or not feel guilty that they are in a comfy place for all eternity while countless daughters, sons, uncles, aunts, grandfathers grandmothers, sisters, brothers, moms, dads, cousins, nieces, nephews, granddaughters and grandsons are burning in hell for all time. Why does a finite sin cause an infinite punishment? An acceptable an more logical punishment would be for those hell bound people to be subjected to the wrongs they did to others or have to be their servant in the afterlife….nobody no matter how evil deserves to burn for ALL TIME….literally no end…. The more I research the bible and its stories the angrier I become that I was subjected to it as a child and now its hard for me to know anything because I had the “christian tinted glasses” on my whole life. That’s not to say I don’t think god exists but whoever wrote that bible was full of shit….I don’t think that was gods word and if it is then its so much wrong with it its no wonder the world is in such chaos.
I know what you mean with the “christian tinted glasses” ugh sometimes I wonder if I could ever objectively see anything. Butttt I guess that’s irrational because we’re all emotional animals so no one sees anything 100% objectively. But I do think the whole “born ‘n raised catholicism” just led me to try and be a “good lil girl” in other words stfu and not express emotions healthily. Yeah I see what ya sayin, my view of heaven though is that everyone gets a lot of chances to get there and if you full on reject it time and time again they can mourn the loss of you and your spirit but sometimes (from my own experience and the experience of others around me) sadness is a black hole and people can suck you into theirs like a vortex. And people who reach that state of consciousness of really feeling they deserve love all the time understand that they can only do so much for those who reject understanding/love. I’d like to think everyone goes eventually…
But what do you mean by a finite sin? I doubt anything trivial gets you “sent to hell” but I also doubt even major things are an automatic. I think it has to be a fullon rejection of love like 100% hardening of your heart and saying you don’t want love. I mean I’ve been there and get there sometimes but I know and can admit deep down I just want to be understood and loved for who I am. I mean..I truly 100% believe everyone does
god is pure love the divine primordial purity it is pure energy u can experice this bliss within u but coz were all fked up and programmed by this fkin sick world ……………..your fkin mind talk follows……………..and some bull shit!
Amen to that ^. The only time I glimpse heaven and divine feelings is when I’m alone and feel 100% comfy within myself. It’s so hard to retain any of those feelings in *the world*
@scarredkitty I mean the sin isn’t something that goes on forever. Like if you steal you stole you didn’t steal for all eternity…..I know I can’t think like a “God” would but I can only try to put myself in the position. The bible say’s he loves you and is forgiving but after you die that’s all out the window either you believed or you will burn in hell…..in the real world if you trust some guy you never saw and give him your money and time you’re an idiot. In religion you’re saved. …I just wish god had made his existence more apparent and obvious rather than leave a self contradicting book written by who knows with all sorts of wild unbelievable shit.
This will piss you off if you are like me and believed every spoon fed story you were given as a child. Not to mention the countess tales of murder infanticide genocide rape slavery and countless other atrocities….Why would a benevolent god do these things? even if humans were evil…..The devil is source of all evil and god was the source of the devil…..basic cause and effect….if the devil had been killed at the first sign of his betrayal all would be peaceful today…..why allow the devil to live and do these things and cause the corruption of humans? He had to know otherwise he wouldn’t be “all knowing”….when I really think about all these things I just get so confused and conflicted inside…. I just wish I was never subjected to any of it….I wish I was never born in this confused and fucked up world where we can’t even prove the origins of man…..till the end of time it will be Religion Vs Evolution…..People can debate all they want but in the end we are still in the dark about everything concerning the beginning …..sorry for rambling on
Nah I’m pretty sure most Christians with half a brain, a morsel of one, have owned up to the fact that the Old Testament is pretty much void. Like there’s no debating that a finger-wagging God that encourages peoples like the playground bully to go attack each other is no more mature and all-knowing than, well, a playground bully.
I think I can partially*** clarify part of that for you and I add the *** because it’s still confusing as hell but at least it makes a bit more sense. Were you taught about how since God’s sposed to be an all-loving God and if you love someone you don’t try to control them…so he gave us “free will”. And because the Devil was just a fallen angel, he was given that same free will. So God lets anyone turn against him if they so choose, and the Devil just happened to be the first to do so.
BUT even though that clarifies the *why* it *could* happen it still doesn’t make sense why God would create the Devil and whatever angel he was in the first place if He, who is all-knowing, knew he’d turn to the dark side. Was it just to illustrate how wonderful he is in comparison? If so, thas shitty.
I feel your confusion on so many levels though with all the religion crap we’re fed and trying to sort through it. And no worries at all PNL I enjoy these discussions we have.
Okay my thing is….If he loved us why create evil? evil was created….Before the fall of man men weren’t evil…..so why make them evil?…..why tempt them with the tree anyway….humans could have been here without evil living in harmony with god from the beginning….whats the point of all the pain and suffering and evilness?….He could have made us all remain young forever and made us so that we are dependent on him and he could have led us that way….there was no reason for the devil or this reality today…..My mom doesn’t have to be an evil ***** for me to know my dad is good…..why can’t they both be good? Nobody ever needed to know the difference between evil and good….simply by never created evil….free will is still free will W/O evil….and do we really have free will anyway? If gods plan dictates something is going to happen…..then…..that means he has to set the chain of events in order for it to happen…That’s why I don’t understand prayer…..why pray for anything? “gods will be done” means if its meant to happen it will if not it won’t…..I don’t think he is going to alter his plan for you or me or anybody else and if its in his will to happen then why pray for it? …..I already had enough bullshit in my life W/O finding out the bible is full of shit as well…. I’m not being disrespectful but man come on god has to realize if he were a human with no divine knowledge….he would find it hard as fuck to believe in him as well…..I wonder if god can have the perspective of a human….if he can then he can’t blame atheist for saying what they say!…..they don’t say it to troll Christians they actually bring up valid points….
I will never understand why god allows the devil to fuck with humanity…. Why fucking wait all these goddamn years to come save the earth and his people? Meanwhile hell is filling up by the boatload because people are falling to satan everyday yet he knows this and lets it go on….He could come back right fucking now kill the devil eliminate evil erase the existence or possibility of evil and everything would be good…..what is the point of all this?…..It’s like having a bad ass son and several puppies and allowing the son to beat the shit out of the puppies till you see fit to intervene ….what the fuck are they doing in heaven that’s so important that they can’t end the pain and suffering in this world right now? Why do we have to be subjected to the risk of hell to get to heaven?
Speaking of heaven….will free will be eliminated once we get there? what if a believer gets tired of heaven and decides to take the same route Satan took…does he get sent to hell? will heaven remove our evil thoughts? will heaven be a place like earth? where you gossip about people and talk about who went to hell and who did what while on earth? will we literally praise him forever till no end? I just don’t understand and it really angers me now that I ask these questions…. I fucking hate existing….I was brought forth by no will of my own to pass a test and if I fail or don’t believe I go to hell for fucking eternity and if I do pass I get to go to heaven to praise god for all eternity….whats the obsession with eternity? I think if a person had eternal life on earth they would commit suicide…..can’t do that in heaven though….once in you’re in for good….
Take it slow, try not to whip yourself into a frenzy with such thoughts. It’s a difficult process, and can take years… even perhaps an entire lifetime.
Surely an all-powerful being who created humans in his own image, would be able to understand how we think…
And an all-loving, all-powerful being would have known exactly what we would be thinking…
And an all-good, all-loving, all-powerful being, would surely be fair in judging what he created in his own image, and to whom he chose, intentionally, to not reveal himself…
And surely such a being who intended for us to have brains capable of reasoning, logic, and rationality, would indeed be… thrilled… that we have used them to the best of our abilities, according to what all these wonderful senses ‘He’ gave us, can represent to us… to conclude that it is incredibly unlikely that any such superbeing even exists.
If there is a ‘God,’ he intends not to reveal himself, because he wants us not to rely upon an outside force for our own well-being. If ‘He’ exists, he wants us to figure out, for ourselves, how to make the most of ‘this,’ with what we’re given, rather than resorting to crying out to the cosmos for magic and miracles.
And if ‘He’ does not, in fact, actually exist… then this is what we should be doing /anyway/.
We should assume we are on our own, and figure out the best ways to make the best and most of whatever all this really is, despite not having all the answers. We should go with what we know, what we can know, what we think we might be able to eventually know… so that we can build and thrive and grow and prosper, through hard work and sacrifice, and relentless pursuit of what we each feel individually compelled toward, and whatever can be agreed upon, that is of utmost import.
But there are some sinister motherfuckers exploiting just about every possible advantage that can be taken of this world and its inhabitants… who have been established in so doing, for quite some time… and how did that happen? Because people are easily mislead into, and controlled by, psychological enslavement… because they don’t understand that you shouldn’t just believe things; you should question everything, and do your best to figure out what is going on, both inside yourself, and beyond… and they don’t understand, because there are books that teach Faith over Reason. Teaching people to “just believe, or else you go to hell instead of getting your cookie!” is the tool that enabled a few to enslave the many.
Could there be some higher power, some yet-undefined entity? Sure there could. But what most people are taught… is something else entirely.
Could there be some sort of “energy” that remains in some other dimension or “afterlife?” Sure there could. But how could any of us living humans possibly know anything about it? How can the transmission of such information, possibly occur? Some pretty wild and crazy stuff would have to happen, to facilitate such a thing.
And when you reach to the edge of what the mind can currently comprehend… you find questions we’ll never be able to answer, like: “what contains the universe?” Or “how can nothing exist inside another nothing, that isn’t the same as the distance between somethings in our mostly-empty-space universe?”
Whatever the answers are to all that… i think what matters is what we do here, now… and that we figure out how to make the most of this place, and ourselves, before we ever venture much further out, whether conceptually, or otherwise.
There are plenty of problems to be solved, right here on earth. I think we have a good enough assessment of the relevant parts of our cosmic relativity, to decide that whatever happens here on earth, in our lives, is what is most important.
It’s just prudent to decide that either ‘God’ doesn’t exist, or isn’t what’s described, or wants to remain irrelevant… at least for now.
We should be spending energy on what we can know, and not stuff we can’t even test or observe. Too many people give up too soon, surrendering to the machine.
@clevername….. the question have been blowing my mind… I’m astounded the adults in my church never realized these things. I remember asking questions and being told “not to question god” and “we can’t comprehend his divine plan” ….of course we can’t! it makes no sense!…. another thing that pisses me off is how I was told to “pray” and ask god for this and that and whatever…..but….if its god plan….what the hell does praying do or solve? When someone dies ….”It’s god plan”…..If they are just terribly terribly injured then “thank god for this miracle he survived” ….which to me….is bullshit….why would you want someone to survive since if they die they go to heaven? It’s so funny because when I was younger I remember asking what an atheist was and it was like I asked who hitler was in front of a bunch of Jews. “They hate god” “They don’t believe in god” “They are evil” just all type of bullshit was told to me. Never did they say…”well they are just people who points out the illogical and unreasonable shit in our holy book so they choose not to buy it W/O concrete proof” ….
I use to watch people scream and shout on sundays I mean SCREAMING….. and crying….and jumping around and “passing out”…..speaking in tongues…you know uttering nonsense unintelligible syllables and all kinds of shit….it was said they they were filled by the “holy spirit”….I remember thinking as a kid “why do they do that?” why is it necessary to make a fool of yourself to show god you are devoted?
Even now in the face of all this stuff its still hard for me to wrap my brain around the possibility that there is no god….I’ve been indoctrinated for so long it’s like trying to open a phone book after its been wrapped with duct tape a 1000 times and rubbed down with super glue. I’ve never read the whole bible but just fed bits and pieces by the preacher and sunday school teachers and its funny how they left out all the shocking stories like the one where the CHILDREN were making fun of the bald guy and he was upset over some kids teasing (normal kid shit) and asked god to send bears to rip the kids to shreds and god complied…..I mean what the entire fuck? and that’s just one story…. I just get so disgusted when I read stories like these because it blatantly contradicts “all loving”…..
Man …….It’s funny how I find out god may not exist just before I bite the bullet….I think I would have preferred to be a sheep and die thinking he does
and yes, It’s a state of mind in which you think you might dwell if there was an afterlife … but then without anything to contain a life or mind … a type of vessel to contain or allow to function or think or experience this … we simply cease to exist …. our physical form which contains our sentient being is recycled back to nature as molecules and atoms to be used and consumed as needed by the universe/multiverse
like RAM memory in a computer, once the power is turned off the information is lost and if the chip is destroyed it can no longer contain any information ever again.
I wish i had come to my senses sooner. It took me a while to stop trying to make a new idea of what god must be. I tried the “well the bible is obviously wrong, but there must be /someone/something/ out there…” approach… which is what lead me to reasoning what i commented above.
I figured that if i, a lowly human atheist, was capable of identifying contradictions on my own, asking questions that seemed to offend believers, and imagining a better god than anything in anyone’s book… then their god must not be all that great, since a human can imagine something better. If i can imagine something better… then why does anyone believe any of those stories? It was baffling to me, until i realized that the elite have been controlling the masses for thousands of years. It’s always been this way, but in this day and age, the groundwork for the most oppressive authoritarian regime in human history, is almost complete.
And dude, i honestly think you’d make a great “truther” or conspiracy theorist. And i don’t mean just pulling wildly preposterous BS out of your ass, i mean exploring the available information, asking the right questions, and figuring out when things don’t add up to making sense, and then displaying that to others.
If life’s just gonna suck anyway, you might as well try to make a mockery of TPTB, while you’re here.
Also, i lol’d at “what the entire fuck?”
lol… the /entire/ fuck! xD
If you still want to check out, i’d strongly recommend giving yourself copious time to ponder and explore all available information and ideas, prior. Try to understand exactly what it is that we have here… what we really are… what we could manifest with guided and focused effort… because that, in and of itself, is the real beauty of life, even when shit is ugly and agonizing. The chance to DO something. And it takes a special type of person to be unafraid to question and discover the harsh truths, in order to have a chance to determine what should be done.
15 comments
I dislike the concept of both. One you have to live forever doing nothing but praising god for all eternity and the other you burn for all eternity. I think I actually prefer oblivion…. Like the state before birth or at least an afterlife where you get to relive your happiest times….
When people ask if there’s a heaven and/or hell… it’s because their BS meter is still working, and it’s telling them something is wrong with what they’ve been told.
Honestly though, how can you even answer such a question?
You know what i like to say? (aside from “No!”)
“How is anyone supposed to know?”
Get them thinking about How anyone can know something that we can’t test, let alone even observe.
I mean it’s all fine and good to make correlations to states of mind, but that was not the intention of the stories of those concepts. Religion doesn’t tell people that hell is a state of mind we experience while alive, nor does it say that about heaven. It tells us about these concepts in order to create a control paradigm based on fear and reward.
Whether or not the original concepts were intended to be used in such a way, will likely remain a mystery. What is pretty clear, is that some valuable concepts were used to manifest and perpetuate an ecosystem dependent upon psychological enslavement.
Welcome to earth where heaven and hell are fancy ideas indeed!
@Pain yeah I’m with you on pretty much everything you said. I feel like my state of mind currently is like hell 75% of the time, purgatory 20%, and heaven 5% (Sleep lol)
@clever I guess my BS meter hasn’t exploded yet because I do believe in love and self-love (wherever they come from, be it a God, the universe, or dopamine lol) being the key to prospering in life. You could also call it self-belief, or whatever. Yeah you’re right it’s unanswerable so it’s like why ask? For me, I ask because it’s something that still interests me even though it’s unknowable. I think I’m leaning more towards Buddhist philosophy with it being a state of mind rather than Christianity or Judaism seeing as they focus on actual places. But in a weird way that I’ll never be able to explain with words because they are so very limiting, I think it’s all trying to get at the same thing, essentially. It’s all the same.
@RT30 I barely ever understand what exactly you mean but I almost alway laugh/like it. Keep it up!
I also don’t understand how people could be happy or not feel guilty that they are in a comfy place for all eternity while countless daughters, sons, uncles, aunts, grandfathers grandmothers, sisters, brothers, moms, dads, cousins, nieces, nephews, granddaughters and grandsons are burning in hell for all time. Why does a finite sin cause an infinite punishment? An acceptable an more logical punishment would be for those hell bound people to be subjected to the wrongs they did to others or have to be their servant in the afterlife….nobody no matter how evil deserves to burn for ALL TIME….literally no end…. The more I research the bible and its stories the angrier I become that I was subjected to it as a child and now its hard for me to know anything because I had the “christian tinted glasses” on my whole life. That’s not to say I don’t think god exists but whoever wrote that bible was full of shit….I don’t think that was gods word and if it is then its so much wrong with it its no wonder the world is in such chaos.
I know what you mean with the “christian tinted glasses” ugh sometimes I wonder if I could ever objectively see anything. Butttt I guess that’s irrational because we’re all emotional animals so no one sees anything 100% objectively. But I do think the whole “born ‘n raised catholicism” just led me to try and be a “good lil girl” in other words stfu and not express emotions healthily. Yeah I see what ya sayin, my view of heaven though is that everyone gets a lot of chances to get there and if you full on reject it time and time again they can mourn the loss of you and your spirit but sometimes (from my own experience and the experience of others around me) sadness is a black hole and people can suck you into theirs like a vortex. And people who reach that state of consciousness of really feeling they deserve love all the time understand that they can only do so much for those who reject understanding/love. I’d like to think everyone goes eventually…
But what do you mean by a finite sin? I doubt anything trivial gets you “sent to hell” but I also doubt even major things are an automatic. I think it has to be a fullon rejection of love like 100% hardening of your heart and saying you don’t want love. I mean I’ve been there and get there sometimes but I know and can admit deep down I just want to be understood and loved for who I am. I mean..I truly 100% believe everyone does
god is pure love the divine primordial purity it is pure energy u can experice this bliss within u but coz were all fked up and programmed by this fkin sick world ……………..your fkin mind talk follows……………..and some bull shit!
Amen to that ^. The only time I glimpse heaven and divine feelings is when I’m alone and feel 100% comfy within myself. It’s so hard to retain any of those feelings in *the world*
@scarredkitty I mean the sin isn’t something that goes on forever. Like if you steal you stole you didn’t steal for all eternity…..I know I can’t think like a “God” would but I can only try to put myself in the position. The bible say’s he loves you and is forgiving but after you die that’s all out the window either you believed or you will burn in hell…..in the real world if you trust some guy you never saw and give him your money and time you’re an idiot. In religion you’re saved. …I just wish god had made his existence more apparent and obvious rather than leave a self contradicting book written by who knows with all sorts of wild unbelievable shit.
http: //www. infidels. org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
This will piss you off if you are like me and believed every spoon fed story you were given as a child. Not to mention the countess tales of murder infanticide genocide rape slavery and countless other atrocities….Why would a benevolent god do these things? even if humans were evil…..The devil is source of all evil and god was the source of the devil…..basic cause and effect….if the devil had been killed at the first sign of his betrayal all would be peaceful today…..why allow the devil to live and do these things and cause the corruption of humans? He had to know otherwise he wouldn’t be “all knowing”….when I really think about all these things I just get so confused and conflicted inside…. I just wish I was never subjected to any of it….I wish I was never born in this confused and fucked up world where we can’t even prove the origins of man…..till the end of time it will be Religion Vs Evolution…..People can debate all they want but in the end we are still in the dark about everything concerning the beginning …..sorry for rambling on
Nah I’m pretty sure most Christians with half a brain, a morsel of one, have owned up to the fact that the Old Testament is pretty much void. Like there’s no debating that a finger-wagging God that encourages peoples like the playground bully to go attack each other is no more mature and all-knowing than, well, a playground bully.
I think I can partially*** clarify part of that for you and I add the *** because it’s still confusing as hell but at least it makes a bit more sense. Were you taught about how since God’s sposed to be an all-loving God and if you love someone you don’t try to control them…so he gave us “free will”. And because the Devil was just a fallen angel, he was given that same free will. So God lets anyone turn against him if they so choose, and the Devil just happened to be the first to do so.
BUT even though that clarifies the *why* it *could* happen it still doesn’t make sense why God would create the Devil and whatever angel he was in the first place if He, who is all-knowing, knew he’d turn to the dark side. Was it just to illustrate how wonderful he is in comparison? If so, thas shitty.
I feel your confusion on so many levels though with all the religion crap we’re fed and trying to sort through it. And no worries at all PNL I enjoy these discussions we have.
Okay my thing is….If he loved us why create evil? evil was created….Before the fall of man men weren’t evil…..so why make them evil?…..why tempt them with the tree anyway….humans could have been here without evil living in harmony with god from the beginning….whats the point of all the pain and suffering and evilness?….He could have made us all remain young forever and made us so that we are dependent on him and he could have led us that way….there was no reason for the devil or this reality today…..My mom doesn’t have to be an evil ***** for me to know my dad is good…..why can’t they both be good? Nobody ever needed to know the difference between evil and good….simply by never created evil….free will is still free will W/O evil….and do we really have free will anyway? If gods plan dictates something is going to happen…..then…..that means he has to set the chain of events in order for it to happen…That’s why I don’t understand prayer…..why pray for anything? “gods will be done” means if its meant to happen it will if not it won’t…..I don’t think he is going to alter his plan for you or me or anybody else and if its in his will to happen then why pray for it? …..I already had enough bullshit in my life W/O finding out the bible is full of shit as well…. I’m not being disrespectful but man come on god has to realize if he were a human with no divine knowledge….he would find it hard as fuck to believe in him as well…..I wonder if god can have the perspective of a human….if he can then he can’t blame atheist for saying what they say!…..they don’t say it to troll Christians they actually bring up valid points….
I will never understand why god allows the devil to fuck with humanity…. Why fucking wait all these goddamn years to come save the earth and his people? Meanwhile hell is filling up by the boatload because people are falling to satan everyday yet he knows this and lets it go on….He could come back right fucking now kill the devil eliminate evil erase the existence or possibility of evil and everything would be good…..what is the point of all this?…..It’s like having a bad ass son and several puppies and allowing the son to beat the shit out of the puppies till you see fit to intervene ….what the fuck are they doing in heaven that’s so important that they can’t end the pain and suffering in this world right now? Why do we have to be subjected to the risk of hell to get to heaven?
Speaking of heaven….will free will be eliminated once we get there? what if a believer gets tired of heaven and decides to take the same route Satan took…does he get sent to hell? will heaven remove our evil thoughts? will heaven be a place like earth? where you gossip about people and talk about who went to hell and who did what while on earth? will we literally praise him forever till no end? I just don’t understand and it really angers me now that I ask these questions…. I fucking hate existing….I was brought forth by no will of my own to pass a test and if I fail or don’t believe I go to hell for fucking eternity and if I do pass I get to go to heaven to praise god for all eternity….whats the obsession with eternity? I think if a person had eternal life on earth they would commit suicide…..can’t do that in heaven though….once in you’re in for good….
@PainNlife:
Right on, man.
You’re understanding!
Take it slow, try not to whip yourself into a frenzy with such thoughts. It’s a difficult process, and can take years… even perhaps an entire lifetime.
Surely an all-powerful being who created humans in his own image, would be able to understand how we think…
And an all-loving, all-powerful being would have known exactly what we would be thinking…
And an all-good, all-loving, all-powerful being, would surely be fair in judging what he created in his own image, and to whom he chose, intentionally, to not reveal himself…
And surely such a being who intended for us to have brains capable of reasoning, logic, and rationality, would indeed be… thrilled… that we have used them to the best of our abilities, according to what all these wonderful senses ‘He’ gave us, can represent to us… to conclude that it is incredibly unlikely that any such superbeing even exists.
If there is a ‘God,’ he intends not to reveal himself, because he wants us not to rely upon an outside force for our own well-being. If ‘He’ exists, he wants us to figure out, for ourselves, how to make the most of ‘this,’ with what we’re given, rather than resorting to crying out to the cosmos for magic and miracles.
And if ‘He’ does not, in fact, actually exist… then this is what we should be doing /anyway/.
We should assume we are on our own, and figure out the best ways to make the best and most of whatever all this really is, despite not having all the answers. We should go with what we know, what we can know, what we think we might be able to eventually know… so that we can build and thrive and grow and prosper, through hard work and sacrifice, and relentless pursuit of what we each feel individually compelled toward, and whatever can be agreed upon, that is of utmost import.
But there are some sinister motherfuckers exploiting just about every possible advantage that can be taken of this world and its inhabitants… who have been established in so doing, for quite some time… and how did that happen? Because people are easily mislead into, and controlled by, psychological enslavement… because they don’t understand that you shouldn’t just believe things; you should question everything, and do your best to figure out what is going on, both inside yourself, and beyond… and they don’t understand, because there are books that teach Faith over Reason. Teaching people to “just believe, or else you go to hell instead of getting your cookie!” is the tool that enabled a few to enslave the many.
Could there be some higher power, some yet-undefined entity? Sure there could. But what most people are taught… is something else entirely.
Could there be some sort of “energy” that remains in some other dimension or “afterlife?” Sure there could. But how could any of us living humans possibly know anything about it? How can the transmission of such information, possibly occur? Some pretty wild and crazy stuff would have to happen, to facilitate such a thing.
And when you reach to the edge of what the mind can currently comprehend… you find questions we’ll never be able to answer, like: “what contains the universe?” Or “how can nothing exist inside another nothing, that isn’t the same as the distance between somethings in our mostly-empty-space universe?”
Whatever the answers are to all that… i think what matters is what we do here, now… and that we figure out how to make the most of this place, and ourselves, before we ever venture much further out, whether conceptually, or otherwise.
There are plenty of problems to be solved, right here on earth. I think we have a good enough assessment of the relevant parts of our cosmic relativity, to decide that whatever happens here on earth, in our lives, is what is most important.
It’s just prudent to decide that either ‘God’ doesn’t exist, or isn’t what’s described, or wants to remain irrelevant… at least for now.
We should be spending energy on what we can know, and not stuff we can’t even test or observe. Too many people give up too soon, surrendering to the machine.
@clevername….. the question have been blowing my mind… I’m astounded the adults in my church never realized these things. I remember asking questions and being told “not to question god” and “we can’t comprehend his divine plan” ….of course we can’t! it makes no sense!…. another thing that pisses me off is how I was told to “pray” and ask god for this and that and whatever…..but….if its god plan….what the hell does praying do or solve? When someone dies ….”It’s god plan”…..If they are just terribly terribly injured then “thank god for this miracle he survived” ….which to me….is bullshit….why would you want someone to survive since if they die they go to heaven? It’s so funny because when I was younger I remember asking what an atheist was and it was like I asked who hitler was in front of a bunch of Jews. “They hate god” “They don’t believe in god” “They are evil” just all type of bullshit was told to me. Never did they say…”well they are just people who points out the illogical and unreasonable shit in our holy book so they choose not to buy it W/O concrete proof” ….
I use to watch people scream and shout on sundays I mean SCREAMING….. and crying….and jumping around and “passing out”…..speaking in tongues…you know uttering nonsense unintelligible syllables and all kinds of shit….it was said they they were filled by the “holy spirit”….I remember thinking as a kid “why do they do that?” why is it necessary to make a fool of yourself to show god you are devoted?
Even now in the face of all this stuff its still hard for me to wrap my brain around the possibility that there is no god….I’ve been indoctrinated for so long it’s like trying to open a phone book after its been wrapped with duct tape a 1000 times and rubbed down with super glue. I’ve never read the whole bible but just fed bits and pieces by the preacher and sunday school teachers and its funny how they left out all the shocking stories like the one where the CHILDREN were making fun of the bald guy and he was upset over some kids teasing (normal kid shit) and asked god to send bears to rip the kids to shreds and god complied…..I mean what the entire fuck? and that’s just one story…. I just get so disgusted when I read stories like these because it blatantly contradicts “all loving”…..
Man …….It’s funny how I find out god may not exist just before I bite the bullet….I think I would have preferred to be a sheep and die thinking he does
to answer the original poster’s question:
no
and yes, It’s a state of mind in which you think you might dwell if there was an afterlife … but then without anything to contain a life or mind … a type of vessel to contain or allow to function or think or experience this … we simply cease to exist …. our physical form which contains our sentient being is recycled back to nature as molecules and atoms to be used and consumed as needed by the universe/multiverse
like RAM memory in a computer, once the power is turned off the information is lost and if the chip is destroyed it can no longer contain any information ever again.
finality dawg
@PainNlife:
I wish i had come to my senses sooner. It took me a while to stop trying to make a new idea of what god must be. I tried the “well the bible is obviously wrong, but there must be /someone/something/ out there…” approach… which is what lead me to reasoning what i commented above.
I figured that if i, a lowly human atheist, was capable of identifying contradictions on my own, asking questions that seemed to offend believers, and imagining a better god than anything in anyone’s book… then their god must not be all that great, since a human can imagine something better. If i can imagine something better… then why does anyone believe any of those stories? It was baffling to me, until i realized that the elite have been controlling the masses for thousands of years. It’s always been this way, but in this day and age, the groundwork for the most oppressive authoritarian regime in human history, is almost complete.
And dude, i honestly think you’d make a great “truther” or conspiracy theorist. And i don’t mean just pulling wildly preposterous BS out of your ass, i mean exploring the available information, asking the right questions, and figuring out when things don’t add up to making sense, and then displaying that to others.
If life’s just gonna suck anyway, you might as well try to make a mockery of TPTB, while you’re here.
Also, i lol’d at “what the entire fuck?”
lol… the /entire/ fuck! xD
If you still want to check out, i’d strongly recommend giving yourself copious time to ponder and explore all available information and ideas, prior. Try to understand exactly what it is that we have here… what we really are… what we could manifest with guided and focused effort… because that, in and of itself, is the real beauty of life, even when shit is ugly and agonizing. The chance to DO something. And it takes a special type of person to be unafraid to question and discover the harsh truths, in order to have a chance to determine what should be done.