Hello everyone. I am new to this site. I wanted to share my views on suicide, as I feel very uncomfortable discussing this kind of thing with people I know in real life. I don’t want them to worry about me. I also don’t want them to try preventing anything that might prevent me from doing the ultimate deed. I felt I needed to at least share some of my views with others, so here I am now.
I guess I should tell a bit about myself. I am a 23-year old male nihilist, that is someone who believes there to be no inherent objective value to life. I am quite a loser, though I do work full-time. My being a loser greatly influenced my nihilism. I suppose it’s easy to be a nihilist when you feel inadequate in many facets of your life. Even if I somehow become happy later in life I know for sure that my nihilism will still remain.
I’ve studied quite a bit about the brain. I am no neuroscientist, but compared to the average person I know a bit about the brain and its mechanisms. It seems what most people want in life is happiness, which involves a strong set of neural pathways that consistently release certain chemicals (officially called neurotransmitters). It’s more than just serotonin, which is the chemical most antidepressants release. Depression is more complicated than a lack of serotonin. Fortunately there will be huge strides in neuroscience this century, and maybe when more of the secrets of the brain are revealed no one will ever have to be depressed again. That is quite a nice thing to think about, but that leads me to a question: is depression really such a bad thing? Some of the best thoughts I’ve ever had occurred when I was severely depresssed. I think depression can offer a clarity to one’s thoughts like nothing else can. When one is happy he or she tends to overlook many things associated with negativity. I don’t think it’s wise to pretend that such things don’t exist.
Personally, I want more out of life than just happiness. When happiness is one’s main goal it just seems all he or she really wants is a strong set of neural pathways in response to their perceptions of the external world around them. I guess what has really kept me going is the fact that I am exceptionally intelligent, at least according to most other people. The thing is I dropped out of high school because of my severe depression and lack of developing social skills to make friends. These two things have made me feel like I am very stupid to the point I feel I must kill myself. Fortunately I have taught myself some social skills and have finally made friends. I guess despite what I might tell myself I kind of want to be happy, or at the very least content with my life’s situations. I know that ultimately I am not that much different from anyone else. Still, the thought of just not existing anymore is comforting to me.
Well, I wanted to write much more on other things, but I think people don’t like to read very long posts. I didn’t get to touch the subject of my suicidal intentions much, but I’ll save that for some other time.
17 comments
Feelings and emotions are driven force. Sometimes depression give us a different perspective of life and we appreciate things different. Some great painters, poets and writers have produced master piece on their sad moments (I know sadness is not the same of depression, but both concept are very close). I understand your point.
Well if you are exceptional intelligent, you have half of the battle win. Because intelligent people have less struggles on life. You should consider go back and finish your high school, if you have done that already.
Being happy never must be a goal o something that we chase, must occur naturally. Happiness is treasure and something worth to have it.
I already obtained a GED a few months after I had dropped out. Not that this really matters, but my overall score was in the 98th percentile. Intelligence, contrary to popular belief, really does not make one’s life easier. I am friends with this one girl who attends a prestigious university and she is quite depressed herself. Her struggles seem no less severe than any other person her age. Often times I am left ruminating on bad thoughts to the point where I just don’t want to do anything. I know this is more of a symptom of depression than intelligence.
I’m not condemning others for pursuing happiness. I’m just saying that as for myself, I want something more out of life than happiness. The weird thing is that my suicidal intentions come from me being unhappy and not really my philosophy of life being inherently meaningless. I know I’m creating a mess in my head, which is why I am finally sharing my thoughts.
I’d love to read more from you man. I mean, you reached all those conclusions that most people never reach in their whole lifetime and you consider yourself a loser? allow me to digress. By my definition, a loser is someone who is unhappy with their life, has all the means to fix it, yet does nothing to do so. You proved in your post that you’ve put yourself out of bad situations plenty of times (teaching yourself social skills? something that almost no one is capable to do on his own).
I do agree on you on the pursuit of happiness thing. So, you find happiness… then what? the thing to me at least, is finding something that makes you continuously happy, or at least gives you happiness across the years. Happiness is not something you achieve and keep, it’s something that comes and goes, but you do need something to hold on to, a “trophy” if you’d like to give it a name, in order to sort of prove yourself you achieved it. Maybe for some happiness is the pursuit of goals? maybe it’s a case of “the trip is more important than the final destination”? i really don’t know, but i guess it’s different for everyone.
One last thing. Once someone said to me “the smartest people are the ones who have it the hardest because ignorance is bliss, and those who see what’s wrong struggle in order to fix it or make sense of it”… kinda guess it’s true, at least to some extent.
It’s hard to assess such a thing when you’ve felt inferior to others for almost all of your life. I appreciate you not considering me a loser though.
Yes, I’ve taken a more objective approach to the goal thing. It’s kind of what sucks about having studied the brain – I can no longer just let things happen. I know I have to incentivize and reward myself for all of my actions as that is how the brain works. Happiness perhaps for me is the realization of a goal coming true. It is different for everyone, as you put.
Congrats for your achievement. I agree with you that intelligence does not make life easier, but believe me, it is better to be intelligent like you than be like me and have many limitations. It is terrible to want to go far beyond and no being able to achieve what you want.
I understand how you are feeling and the ideas your expressing. I have been like you many times. I found myself immerse so much in my negative thoughts that I stop working in the things that really matter. Many times I get totally lost and I just one to sleep to escape from my reality.
Why are you still unhappy?
Ahh, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s one reason why I don’t like to brag about my intelligence much. I realize I was just born lucky. Despite my being smart, I haven’t really done much other than read difficult texts.
Yes, you seem to really know what I am experiencing well. I guess it’s because I feel trapped at the moment. I think I shall elaborate a bit more in a future post.
I know what you mean. If they suddenly came out with happy pills that really worked, I’m not sure I would take them. I would fear I was losing a part of myself.
But ultimately, the things I want from life are just as bound to conventional ideas of happiness as everyone else. I just want the world to change, to accomodate me, rather than me changing to accept it. But that gets old, as you realise it’s never going to happen.
Trying to look at it objectively, I think it might be wiser just to take the happy pill. Why cling to the depressing truth, if life has no deeper meaning? What would you lose that’s of value?
It makes me think of old sci-fi/horror films with a brainwashing element. ‘Join us! It’s wonderful! Not a care in the world!’ And of course the hero always resists, wins out and gets the girl. And so we learn that it is better to resist seductive lies and face the grim reality. But that doesn’t really hold up if you deny that reality has any deeper significance, and you’re miserable in it. Better, surely, to give in, take the drugs, and be a happy, docile sheep.
It’s really not that hard to change your inner state of mind, though it is hard to come to ultimate peace with the world. I don’t think I would take the happy pill myself. All of our emotions work together to create subjective meaning and I think such a thing is important. Sheep is a strong word to describe people lacking metacognitive skills. I don’t think it’s better to be blissfully ignorant.
Ha, I’m really glad I named the post pseudo-intellectual philosophy, as that is what I feel like I’m typing.
I don’t think you can ‘decide’ to change your state of mind. Your state of mind precedes any such decision. Or rather, it is the decision. If you ‘decide’ that you’re going to be happy, your state of mind is already happy – you have just rationalized that change as a decision.
The happy pill would give you the most incredible sense of subjective meaning. Just look at the effect ecstasy can have.
Those on the pill would not necessarily lack metacognitive skills. They would just lack the emotional connections most of us associate with what we perceive. What might seem terrifying empty, and unacceptable to us would seem blissfull to them.
Eh, you should be thankful you didn’t fall into the societal trap of school. If you are smart, learn a skill, use it to make money. Life is as simple as that. If you learn to survive in the world then you have succeeded. You don’t need to state your intelligence, it’s simply implied; it is implied by the fact you can effortlessly live while being miserable at the same time. Go wow the world child, go above and beyond. Use your natural intelligence to grasp on to some skill, and make it work for you. Intelligent people should be able to pick up a few skills somewhat effortlessly despite being hindered by chemical imbalance and negative neuropathways = ).
I guess considering school as a societal trap is one way to look at it. You must understand the severe alienation I felt from dropping out though. I have mostly gotten over it as it’s in the past. What the hell can I do about it at this point, right? I only stated my intelligence because it is the main drive keeping me alive. Sorry if it seems like I’m boasting. You’re absolutely right, that I shouldn’t let such things hinder me. It’s easier said than done, but at this point I either do something or continue spiraling downward into nothingness. And if that happens I’ll have no one but myself to blame.
I was referring to college as a societal trap. Try listening to some podcasts, it’s an utterly effortless way to get introduced to the world. Literally listen to anything and there are little treasures to be found. There are ways to pave a life for yourself you’ve never been introduced to.
“I can show you the world, shining, shimmering, splendid..”
Why do you consider college to be a societal trap? If anything, in the US, it’s a debt trap. I’m more into reading than listening. You obviously mean I need to expose myself my mind to more things, which is true.
Right it’s a debt trap encouraged by society as “the” way to get ahead. It’s imbued into our culture, but at this point in time depending on your major gives little to no benefit. You’re right I suppose I worded it incorrectly.
Pf, you hit dead on the feeling that has consumed me for years and has led to me walking away from so many great situations (jobs, travel opportunities, and yes people). What do you do when happiness isn’t a reason to live?
In this context, the word “happiness” encompasses “love”, “money”, “success”, “fame”, “family”, “health” and all the other millions of things that drive humans to live. But just like Robin Williams (my go-to analogy for tragic, incurable depression) who had all of these things and yet it still wasn’t enough to make him want to live, what else is there?
The frustrating thing is that very few people understand. Or some people assume it’s anhedonia (inability to feel pleasure), but trust me, that’s not it. Happiness is great, and whenever it comes along I indulge greedily. But even in the midst of a happiness high I know that it’s still not a valid reason to live. If that were the case, if happiness is all it takes, then there will come a day when every human is confined to his or her bedroom popping happiness pills one after the other. As much as I love dystopian scifi, that day will never (fully) happen because I believe all living creatures instinctively know that blind epicurean pleasure isn’t a real existence.
But I guess with most people, happiness or the thrill of attaining happiness is enough to distract them from the bigger question: why bother doing anything?
I once had some ideas for a life purpose that’s bigger than happiness. To put it short: live for the overall betterment of this machine called earth. I think the samurai called it “bushido” which encompasses loyalty, discipline, duty, honor and mastery of an art. Nowhere in there is happiness or love or money or a house in the suburbs with a 2 car garage.
The problem with bushido is it only seems to work when you are part of a greater whole. You have to be loyal to *something*, duty bound to *something* and all that. Furthermore, that *something* has to be something you believe in.
Enter the pitfall of nihilism. By definition, nihilism means you believe in basically nothing. I don’t mean you can’t find anything to believe in; I mean you believe in Nothing with a capital N.
I’ve fought hard against nihilism all my life, and maybe you sensed in my other thread how desperately I’m trying to find meaning in abstract things like gravity and such. Because I know the day I fully accept nihilism is the day I cut to the chase and take my swan dive into nothing.
Shouldn’t all nihilists reach that conclusion? I mean, you could always continue to live for the little pleasures in life, Epicureanism or hedonism I guess you’d call it, but when the party’s over (or more to the point, when you get tired of the party), well… there’s the Abyss. Come one, come all, no waiting.
Nice thoughts you’ve got here. I’m going to take my time replying. If it weren’t for my depression I probably would have never bothered learning about the brain. I kind of wish an intro to neuroscience was mandatory in schools. Even though the name neuroscience may sound scary to some it’s really no harder than standard biology.
Really this gets me to also asking “what ultimately is happiness?” This is something psychologists have difficulty agreeing upon too. As I’ve said earlier it’s more than just the release of serotonin in the brain. Excess pleasure obviously does not lead one to happiness. It seems the brain likes a bit of struggle before the pleasure happens. This may be why people who continue working live longer than those who just quit completely right after retirement age. Hard work, even when the reward is small, is a reward in itself to many.
Buddhist philosophy has really helped me come to terms with nihilism. Buddha left his palace of excess because he felt his life was meaningless. He then became a mendicant and nearly starved himself to death. He eventually stated that neither extremes were desirable and that one should take the middle path to enlightenment. The philosophy he created really states that life is what you make of it.
I’m trying to just accept things as they are. Maybe there isn’t a deeper meaning to everything, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Damn, you guys really are making me think and reconsider my thoughts. I’m glad.
Bushido (as you call it) might actually work when people reach a higher enlightment. It’s sort of already happening little by little, so it might not be so far fetched that at some point we’ll either live to better the earth, or (the one everyone thinks will happen) destroy it once and for all.