It is amazing how much people judge suicidal people and it is not only the non suicidal. Within the ranks of suicidal the old are judging the young, the traumatized judging the better off and probably even a division within different diagnosis, depressed versus manic possibly. Everyone is trying to legitimise their own reasons, trying to be the most deserving of death. I do not think it matters why you choose to attempt suicide. Suicide is valid no matter what. Even if you did it to spite someone, it is just as valid. I believe they are all valid because life is meaningless. Death is meaningless. All of our actions are meaningless. Love, compassion and friendship it is not that suicide is elevated to the perceived limits of meaning that these have; it is that all these concepts are just as meaningful, meaningless, as death.
I thought I would have more to say on the subject but it is tedious to keep going over the same nonsense time and time again. So there is a little snippet, life is meaningless, I hope one day that suicide will not be such a huge deal.
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I guess people think their own issues outweigh others and because of this that they are entitled to suicide and others are not. I agree with your POV but I think suicide is valid for different reasons. I think your life belongs to you. Nobody sees what you see through your own eyes. I think people have a natural choice and right to do whatever they please as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. Suicide is not causing anyone any more harm than an accidental or natural death. In my view it is less harmful than murder… Society says “but how can he take his own life” which is a stupid statement because if its yours how can you take it? thats like taking your watch from your dresser and being charged with robbery…its nonsense. I think that suicide is valid because it is not someones right to force someone else to live if they don’t want to.
NO..your WRONG!!
DON’T SPEAK YOUR MIND!!
HOLD YOUR TUNGUE I SAY!!!
BE MINDFUL OF MY WRATH!!
…..WRATH, I TELL YOU!!!
I have to say @realtalk30 that made me laugh…I don’t know why I guess I pictured a parent saying that to a child after being outsmarted lol
lol that’s the epitome of society’s forceful nature right there!
Then isn’t “judgement” also meaningless?
And if so, why does everyone seem so upset by “being judged?”
I can judge whatever, whoever, however i want… and there is nothing anyone can do, to stop me. The same goes for everyone else.
I still stand by the principle, though, that “correct” judgement is right, whereas “incorrect” judgement is wrong. No one has to agree with anyone. We can let everything be a “me vs. the world” situation, if that’s what everyone wants. If that’s what everyone wants, then that’s how it will be, even if we don’t “let it” be that way. People are people, and will do what they do.
“Wah, stop judging meeee!”
Would be nice if everyone judged each other, only by the preferred criteria of the judged… but it doesn’t work that way. People make choices based on their beliefs, and judge accordingly. I still say that only certain criteria and methods of arriving at “judgements” are valid… but that isn’t going to stop someone from judging by methods and criteria with which i disagree, or find invalid.
I do not equate meaning with producing a reaction. Just because being judged makes someone feel some way does not mean it matters. If I do not think people have meaning than surely their opinions have even less meaning, if that were possible. Which I guess it is not because to have less meaning than something else than the something else would have to have meaning. The addendum I always put to my theory was, “but people can create relative meaning”. Obviously judgement is a good one for that addendum but what meaning does it hold in an objective, not a subjective, sense? Well removed of our own experience and perception it would have no meaning because we were looking at it having an effect on someone and that leads me to what I said before, that whole thing about if people dont matter than blah blah blah.
and since I am too impatient to wait for a response I will just talk to myself.
But why do people not have meaning? Are we not all knowing, powerful and good, just as our God created us? (I mock because I am bored)
Oh oh oh, how misguided you are. (shakes head condescendingly) Perhaps if there was a God and we were created with a purpose than I would concede that we have meaning. I do not however believe there is a God and I do not think that our secular creation gives us purpose. Sure we might have a subjective person from person to person, but in the grande scheme of things what do any of us matter. Everyone who we had an impact on will die. Everyone they had an impact on will die. Then everyone who ever remembered them will die. Which I guess is everyone they had an impact on.
You can start with nothing, and arbitrarily apply artificial meaning to it, or derive abstract meaning from it. Interpreted or created “meaning” is technically “more meaningful” than the literal absence of meaning, even if the “meaning” doesn’t really “mean” anything. In the sense that 1 is infinitely greater than 0, you could say that arbitrary, meaningless meaning is “infinitely more meaningful” than the utter absence… but in realist terms, there’s not much difference.
However, just because “you believe” there is no meaning, that doesn’t make meaning not exist. And if meaning does exist, despite your belief that it doesn’t, then you are increasing your subjectivity enough that it eclipses objectivity, and becomes “opinion.” If you “feel a way” about something, i suppose you could call that “meaning.”
Objectively, people who judge, alter the available options and potential experiences of those they judge. Judgement becomes selection, and selection determines who is allowed to experience what. In that way, it matters… because everyone is at the mercy of the manifestation of interpreted or created “meaning” of others, whether or not they agree, whether or not those meanings are “valid.”
You won’t be able to convince most people that they don’t “matter,” simply due to the fact that we experience suffering and pleasure. People do care about what they feel, whether or not it has any “intrinsic” meaning. Even if it’s utterly meaningless, the pain i feel “means” that i am uncomfortable, and for that to occur on a regular basis, “means” that i need it to be purposeful or rewarding, or i will be unhappy, and will most likely not pass on my genetic material, due to how others will judge “unhappy” or “undesirables.” Objectively, that matters, because it determines what makes the species.
Of course, this is all very abstract, and just one person doesn’t seem like much, compared to the whole world… but it’s not just one person. It’s lots and lots of people, and so that seemingly miniscule individual impact, repeated several billion times, does indeed represent a significant objective result.
Then again, who am i to say anyone is wrong? Maybe what i see as “wrong” is simply the natural order of things, and “how things should be.” Maybe humanity doesn’t want or need to be more like me, and would be better off to exclude my genetic material from the pool.
The meaning is in the moment, not the end.
I purposely prefaced most of my arguments with, “I believe…” because I wanted to make sure everyone knew they were just that. I offered no real concrete deductions so I could not say it as fact.
The meaning can only be determined by the end result…I believe
Referring to your first paragraph. I believe exactly as you said in that kind of subjective meaning but I would still not give it anything but a score of 0. I can not say it is any more meaningful than…meaning. I will grant you that it exists though which I guess would make it better than something that doesnt exist…hmm
😐 Yeah…I’m high alright! lol
*curtain closes*