Humans are smart and tend to take intelligent decisions always
how to close a business deal, intelligent choices to make life better,the probability calculations, innovations, research.
out of all these most intelligent choice is suicide
Why some people consider it as selfish act?
15 comments
“Why some people consider it as selfish act?”
Because they’re missing the point.
Whether my suicide is perceived as “selfish,” is irrelevant. Also, people are taught that “selfish is bad,” when really it isn’t. How can we survive if we don’t look out for ourselves? We HAVE TO BE SELFISH, or we will die, or worse, be stuck in an endless cycle of exploitation, at the hands of those who attempt to con-vince us that to deprive another of OUR OWN LIVES, is “bad,” and that it’s “bad” “because we are prioritizing ourselves,” because putting ourselves before those who want to exploit us, decreases the amount they can gain by exploiting us.
In other words: we’re reclaiming what they have stolen, which was never theirs to claim in the first place. They’re upset, and trying to make us feel bad about taking away what does not belong to them. But it DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM. They have no say in the matter, and their protest is laughable at best, and reprehensible at worst.
“it’s selfish” so what? And? I can be selfish if i want, My Body, My Rules. (#MyBodyMyRules)
You are not entitled to anything that may result from my efforts, UNLESS I SAY SO. So when you claim that i am “selfish,” i will simply laugh at you, and agree: yes; yes i am; but not as selfish as you. I care enough about myself to not allow you to abuse and exploit me, if i am able to prevent it. Not only that, i will tell everyone else they should be doing the same thing, and refusing to allow anyone to claim their energy, or dictate what they may do with their own life and body.
But i also extend this same human right to personal sovereignty to every other person, and even non-human animals.
You do whatever you want, and as long as you’re not hurting anyone, i don’t care. Be happy, be gross, mutilate yourself, embarrass yourself, make people hate you; if that’s what makes you happy, go for it. But as soon as you cause me a detriment, you’ve crossed the line, and should rightly suffer an appropriate consequence.
You can’t own me, and i can’t own you. Stop acting appalled that what i want is not what you want me to want. You are not entitled to my life, my energy, my time, my compassion, nor my Consent. You cannot command my compliance. You deserve 0% of anything i do not voluntarily consent to give to you. If you try to take any part of me from myself, without my permission, that is an unforgivable violation of my personal sovereignty, and we will fight to the death. And if you win, i will die knowing i fought the good fight, and without regret. I know that 99% of the fucked up shit i’ve endured, was not my choice, but rather was the choice of other humans trying to manipulate, control, and benefit from me, by attempting to make me think i “owed” them some part of my life, which i don’t, and never will.
You don’t want to fight to the death with someone who has nothing to lose, and sees the end of his own existence as a Gain. You don’t want to push someone who will gladly take you down with them.
I would prefer to LIVE for my principles… but part of that is being willing to die in the process of protecting and upholding them.
So, what do you guys think?
Do you care enough to fight for your own principles?
Do you care enough to as-correctly-as-possible, configure your principles, so that they are not merely tenable, but impenetrable? This is the cost of earning righteousness. You must earn your righteousness, by pouring time and energy into figuring out what is actually right and wrong, what is actually acceptable and not, where your own freedom ends, and where mine begins.
Then again, i don’t think it’s often that the problem is lack of caring enough. It’s usually more about being outnumbered, outgunned, and too weak and ill-equipped to do anything significant about it. And that only happens because of oppression, information suppression, misinformation, disinformation, and even manipulation of available food supply.
The rich people can make us too weak to fight effectively, effectively removing the choice to resist the tyranny, leaving us only one possible avenue of flow: through their machine, until it has stripped every last bit of all it can take from us, just before it discards us like yet another wasted battery. It makes batteries. It has plenty more. So it doesn’t make sense for anyone to be “appalled” that an unhappy battery wants to eject itself from this horrible system.
They are greedy, and possess the means to impose; that’s why.
But once they resort to blatant imposition, they have revealed their true colors, and minimized our compliance, while maximizing our resistance. Too many Ohms, not enough volts or amps, makes it too costly to keep using us, which then costs them more resources to replace us; but not much.
Also!
I don’t think “the most intelligent choice” is suicide. It is perhaps the most appealing choice… but the most intelligent choice, would be to endure the agony of maximum effort, for the maximum duration, in order to attempt to convert your remaining energy in to actual changes, so that this travesty can finally be minimized.
It’s not going to just work itself out for the best, if all the most intelligent suffering people, make the most appealing decision. It’s only going to get right if we fight for it… and it’s going to be a long and nasty fight; very unappealing, very unpleasant. But it would be the most intelligent choice… because the most intelligent choice would be to unite with all who understand what needs to be corrected at the source/fundamental/foundation level, and get that shit done, so that it stops producing problems that make so many people want to just say “fuck it!” and kill themselves.
Fixing the problem as rapidly and effectively as possible, would be the most intelligent choice.
Unfortunately, i don’t think there are enough intelligent people who are also strong enough to make that choice, in the face of the overwhelming majority of idiots flooding this world with idiot-brain-genes.
Or… perhaps the most intelligent choice, is to just do whatever you want, when you want, until something stops you.
I believe some people believe it is a selfish act because at this time they are not suicidal. So those that are suicidal are not like them. Many are caught up in brow beating others and how easy is it to throw the word “selfish”around. I can not even understand how one could say that to another that is at their breaking point.
Clevername and Onlylove…..you both make valid and commanding points. I am attempting to “live” in the reality of the self aware and “for my own well being” self centered attitude of which Clever speaks. This REALLY pisses some people off because I no longer allow them to use me like a doormat. There are consequences to asserting oneself in this fashion and it can all lead you into frightening and unfamiliar territory. I am learning I must find ways to stand up for myself in ways that support my belief in compassion….but that’s a post all its own.
Onlylove, you are absolutely correct….if a person has no personal experience of the depth of despair that leads to suicidal ideation, they cannot comprehend or understand the need to make the pain stop. Their ability to understand is stunted and the only explanation they can formulate is that the person who kills himself is morbidly selfish and does not care about how the manner of their death affects those who remain behind…..that it’s “all about me” …….
Addicted: I understand your question. I have put it this way, in responding to someone who told me they consider suicides selfish and weak:
“From your perspective, my killing myself is selfish because it deprives you of the opportunity to have everything and everyone in your life be the way you want them to be. From my perspective YOU are the selfish one, because you would actually want me to continue a life and existence that is so painful and repugnant to me that the only way I can find out of this hellish pain is to end my life….you actually want and need me to continue on this earth, in such pain, so YOU can feel good about yourself and have everything the way YOU want it to be. You have more compassion for a woundred animal….a creature you would have no compunction about putting out of its misery. A dog is more deserving of your compassion, in your opinion.”
So your act of suicide is really all about what it does TO them (removes control), rather than what it GIVES to you…. a restoration of control and a final relief from pain. Who, I ask you, is the selfish one? Is the answer, perhaps, both?
“This REALLY pisses some people off because I no longer allow them to use me like a doormat. There are consequences to asserting oneself in this fashion and it can all lead you into frightening and unfamiliar territory. I am learning I must find ways to stand up for myself in ways that support my belief in compassion….but that’s a post all its own.”
Correct. 🙂
I forget to warn of this realm of caveats.
Principles are both a boon and a bane, depending on the context. When you find principles worth keeping, they’re worth fighting for… but not everyone understands or accepts principles not compatible with their own, which can easily generate conflict. I suppose selective disclosure is a good tool to keep sharp for when principles clash.
Remember: adversity breeds strength. To become strong, you have to fight for it. The harder and longer you fight, the stronger you’ll become (assuming you’re not taking more damage than you can repair… which can certainly happen, which is part of my own personal circumstances, which is part of how i arrived at such notions).
Also: i believe it is technically possible, perhaps even plausible, that most people can indeed mend themselves and amend their circumstances, in order to sufficiently minimize their suffering, and that suicide is not necessarily “the only option” (though i certainly understand the experience of feeling that it IS the only viable option… i still feel that way sometimes, which is why i’m even commenting right now; i wouldn’t be here if i was fine… or maybe i’d be posting an occasional inspiration or something… but i’ve been trying to endure a pretty difficult misery spike for the last several days… or was it weeks, now… and sometimes i feel like i’m about to have some kind of… episode, or something… idk, it helps to focus on something, but i often find it difficult to be interested enough in anything, to really focus, plus with all the environmental disruptions, sometimes it’s just not feasible, which leaves me feeling like drills in my teeth with no anesthesia… except instead of in my teeth, it’s in my mindscape… like, blinding, sanity shattering emotional and psychological trauma… but i’ve managed to endure it… though it feels like “just barely.”)
Anyway, i just wanted to acknowledge that it was a good point: caveats abound for attempting to assert self-ownership and personal sovereignty. It does have a tendency to ruffle a few feathers… but totally worth it, if you can stand your ground and make the right point. 🙂
@CLevername
How is it you haven’t written a book yet? Seems you could produce a munscript in a couple days without really trying 😛
Love your perspectives – even if sometimes i disagree, (not currently the case) but always much respect
humble dawg
Hey Dawg ^^
Honestly, as i just finished mentioning, i haven’t been able to focus much at all lately, but the whole “write a book” idea has been on my mind.
But just like anything else, if you ask someone to explain what they think they know, they’ll likely realize they didn’t understand it quite as thoroughly as they thought they did… which is something i’m always watching myself for, which ends up with me trying to do a million things at once (like learning about electricity, ecology, psychology, and various other things…) plus, dealing with humans can take too much of my energy, which then takes me too long to recharge, and a just see time zipping by… first it’s a lost day or two, then it’s weeks and months. I need to adjust my local config, before i can get any “real” work done.
But i’ve totally entertained the idea of just winging it, and going “all-in,” and just writing until i have something i can eventually publish. I have some ideas, but i’m in the middle of a clusterfuck at the moment, not sure what to do about it, totally stressed out. Just trying to get to the next island/clearing, so i can attempt to make some progress.
Most people believe that life is the most precious thing you can lose. It’s an incomprehensible act to the average, well adjusted person.
The arguments against suicide are usually emotionally driven. They’ll tell you that suicide is selfish because the ones left behind will feel pain after you’ve made a choice they don’t agree with. It makes me wonder who’s really being selfish: The person who chooses to discontinue their existence, or the people who wish he/she hadn’t?
It is a difficult decision. There’s no going back once you do the deed, but it is your decision and the opinions of others are irrelevant once you’re gone. For the record, I don’t believe it’s *always* the best decision. The self destruct button should only be activated when all other options have failed and the future holds no prospects. After the ship strikes an iceberg and all hope is lost, there are no life jackets and no more space available in the life boats, and your continued existence will only prolong the torture you’re certain to experience before you succumb to the inevitable. That would an appropriate time to end the show. (IMHO)
” It makes me wonder who’s really being selfish: The person who chooses to discontinue their existence, or the people who wish he/she hadn’t?”
THe answer here – is BOTH are being selfish … but as clevername so eloquently pointed out, selfishness is a requirement for life for all beings on this planet and likely beyond.
THe REAL question is, why should the selfish needs of one trump the selfish needs of another? my perspective is the living can come to terms with loss and adjust their mind and needs to account for the loss whereas for the person considering self termination would be REQUIRED to sacrifice his/her needs to benefit those around him/her who are selfishly demanding that person’s presence not matter the cost in pain and suffering.
THat said, I generally agree with your analogy – but it doesn’t go far enough to exhaust every last possible option … life jackets and lifeboats are not the only things that float as evidenced by the flotsam and jetsam of many a shipwreck has shown – there is always the option for other items such as wood planks, mattresses, crates, barrels etc., ad nauseam that COULD be considered before fully giving in to the inevitable.
with THAT said, I’m probably safe to assume that that is what you meant by your analogy in the first place – only stopping at the obvious for brevity of illustration … but in my opinion, this can be sometimes dangerous to omit certain things in certain contexts, which is why i am posting to be more detailed since, as we agree “there’s no going back”, we must be thorough to include every conceivable option to ensure it was considered
sorry to be semi annoying 😉
detail dawg
Well, as i’ve stated more than once in the past, your (Actually “your” not generally “your”) mind is an amazing place when you focus on a subject – so thorough and detailed down to the minutia complete with the most likely tangents and counterpoints … I’m envious or your capacity for learning and knowledge (not that i think myself a slouch in that department) but I know i’m lazy when it comes to fully rounded out thought processes.
But I see your point … like a hand grenade that has a 360 degree kill radius but only up to 20-30 meters, you need to sharpen focus to project all the power and energy down a single linear point like a barretts .50 cal rifle that can kill at a mile or more but only at a single point.
meandering thoughts, have i.
Good to see you my friend
respect dawg
This response was to Clevername and his response to my comment above – apologize for any confusion
@Dawg; Nah, you’re not being annoying. In the shipwreck analogy I was imagining cold water, where a dip in the drink results in a loss of consciousness within minutes.
Now, if the ship went down in warm water, and the majority of the passengers were Victoria’s Secret lingerie models, and it was my duty to repopulate our newly formed island society, I’d be scrambling around looking for anything that floats.
I was going on the “cold water” premise too. which I would find the lesser of two evils of freezing, vs drowning (which i can’t imagine many worse ways to go. so I suppose that when faced with such a choice one also has the wild card of what method of self-dispatch might be readily available and handy in such a moment of crisis … may self inflicted means would require time and prep that would render them not useful/realistic options … fast freezing would actually probably be one of the more appealing options in such a scenario in the absence of … say, a firearm which is likely to be a scarce commodity on a cruise ship in the north atlantic in 1912 (or any year for that matter) 😛
But as analogies go – the sinking of the “ship of life” is not a forgone conclusion by any means. One can never be 100% certain that a rescue vessel is not nearby despite what might seem to be painfully obvious with current information – which is by no means the same as a complete set of information.
So my point for outside the box thinking and reaching for low percentage options that at least off the slim possibility of an ultimately positive outcome is critical since we tend to get tunnel vision and can only focus on what is clearly obvious through the perception and interpretation of that perceived data set at that moment. In other words – throwing your hand out one last time in what may seem like useless futility, may be turn out to be the one time that you grasp the wrist of a multi billionaire supermodel and you might be able to save her life in a seemingly last dying act but she in turn is able to assist you to the same life saving device you found for her and she might be eternally grateful and decide to take care of your every want and desire for the rest of your life.
… it “could” happen 😛 … but it does require that last, final effort despite the “forgone conclusion” of your imminent demise. It ain’t over til it’s over … but when it’s over there is no shame in expediting the inevitable … if it is without doubt the inevitable … my point is, be absolutely 100% sure that is is before making a decision you cannot return from and potentially cheating yourself out of the opportunity for a solution.
fantasy dawg
Yeah, miracles are rare but they can happen.
There was an NFL game last season where the Broncos were up 24-0 against the Patriots at halftime. I quit watching because I figured it was pretty much a done deal. What are the odds of coming back from a deficit like that?
New England won the game in OT, 27 – 24. Unlikely doesn’t mean impossible, but…..it is rare.
Precisely – if the Patriots would have opted out as a “why bother” situation, they would not be champs (ugh). So while i wholeheartedly agree a person could and should have the choice to select the time, place, method and condition of their demise … i think they should execute due diligence t try as many conceivable options to find a solution to improving their living condition before firmely settling on their dying condition.
How many posts have we seen here where someone has an annoying hangnail and by golly, life is worthless – must. enditall! … and then ive seen others where i’m hard pressed to come up with half the solutions and options a poster has attempted to improve their condition and although the “writing is on the wall”, they STILL find a way to try one one desperate and silly off the wall half cocked crazy hail mary type idea – and then if that don’t work, well then sayonara – I can respect that kind of “give it your all” and if all else fails type approach.
dichotomy dawg