http://www.helium.com/debates/280516-is-the-world-getting-better-or-worse-with-each-generation/side_by_side?page=2
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060704195516AAnrdOD
(read especially the “Best Answer” on the top)
So really,..the question then becomes: Is the world getting better or worse, all a matter of seeing and *choosing* to view half-empty glass, or half-full glass?
It’s really a matter of perspective? and how you’re *using* it to keep continuing, or *stop* and give up?..
And finally, what do you think about this post:
“that bit about suicide struck me though… the universe presents us with challenges for us to learn from them. suicide is just saying, “i don’t want to learn now”. you’ll still have to eventually though. folks who believe that the end of your body is the end of your life will disagree, but to me, that is not how the universe appears to function. capitalism is a strange entity, but ending your life because of it is a bit superficial no? everything that plagues us is a chance to make a change. giving up is certainly a change, but it doesn’t move anyone forward. i think it’s our job to act on behalf of the universe as a whole… having that perspective with respect to capitalism or anything else yields a completely different set of possibilities, and suicide is simply a delay (or a regression even?)… certainly not an escape as those who try hope it will be.”
(taken from http://personalitycafe.com/infp-forum-idealists/31284-capitalism.html , a post by “wanderingone”)
“An idea is like a virus. Resilient… highly contagious. The smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define, or destroy you.” – Inception
21 comments
I don’t agree that suicide is a way of saying ‘I don’t want to learn now’ that’s a very judgemental and quite frankly, insulting thing for someone to say. Many people HAVE learned all they need to here. I agree that lessons need to be learned, but it doesn’t matter at what stage in your life (your age) you learn them. Life isn’t necessarily over when you get too old to be able to wipe your own arse, in fact, that could mean that you’ve held on greedily to the material world and let all your ‘lessons’ pass you by. This place is only a material world anyway so those who grip onto it for dear life, are nothing more than materialistic beings with no soul.
Niki – Thats a very stupid thing to say ‘suicide is saying I don’t want to learn now’ who said this a 12 year old? Or obviously someone REALLY superficial, who can’t think beyond their next pay check. Not everyone wants to live forever in a place of greed and violence. Some can only take so much of that and want something more meaningful.
I find it amusing that anyone is attempting to improve the world in any way, it shows me how mankind has in fact evolved, ‘continuing’ in the exact direction it is meant to – that of the ego and nothing more. We hold onto this tiny lesson of this existence with such force as if it is the be all and end all. How funny.
Tammy: It is a little unfair to say that the person who said this must be stupid. We are all ‘stupid’ we are human! You are stupid for reacting to the comment, and ANYONE is stupid to take any meaning from the comment, when it clearly came from a source that is not fully aware of very much beyond the material. If a human becomes too aware, he/she will cease to exist here. Everything here will fade away into such insignificance that he/she will no longer belong. THAT is when your life is over. Not through depression, anger or a protest.
Scarecrow; ALL materialistic beings have a soul, we all have a soul. Our job here on earth is to remember them. To connect with it once again. Only there will you find your true being. Life throws all these obstacles in our way to make us forget our true being, the test is only over when you stop trying. Anything to be achieved here is all superficial, an illusion, no matter how you desperately try to believe that it isn’t. Everyone believes in illusions or we wouldn’t be human.
I want to stop trying and soon one day I will, but I still have attachments to the illusion, I know this because I get a little scared to think ‘I’ will no longer exist. But I am very hopeful of the day when my fears disappear. I have started a love affair with my long lost soul and it is teaching me and guiding me. Soon I will need nothing of this world, and that fills me with pure love and a feeling of calm.
Harmonia= Please can I contact you? I really need to speak with someone like you, please x
The only thing we need to learn during this life, is that none of it is real or meaningful. Once we think that it is, we become attached to an illusion and an ugly one at that. Your lessons are to use your strength throughout your life, to unplug the connections to this world (which is not an easy thing to do, in fact, it is harder than you can imagine) there are no other real lesson to be learnt, it’s a long process to the end, that’s all.
Is suicide then saying that you don’t want to learn now? It depends on why you are suicidal. If you are suicidal because of a ‘circumstance’ then yes, that is saying that you can’t be bothered to use your skills to overcome a hurdle. That is giving in to your ego. But if you are suicidal because you have learned to love only your soul and have remembered your natural state of being – then no of course not! That is wonderful! But, I do believe that if you die due to your ego, then you could very well end up living another human life again until you connect with your soul. I don’t think you can escape this existence for anything less than being truly enlightened. This is why I believe in ‘old souls’ – I think these are human lives that have lived many times and are very close to finding true enlightenment (close to the end of this life cycle and ready to move onto the next level). So it is very likely to be a young soul that is very involved in life here, and happy, it is the young soul that has the most lessons to learn, all hard ones – all being discovering that nothing of this material world can bring you happiness.
Is the world better or worse; of course it’s a matter of perspective how can any intelligent person ask such a question? The world is a place of materialism, and so for those who are here, it is improving (becoming more materialistic), even if you are suffering here due to materialism, the situation is still improving because non materialistic people don’t belong here, or they are too weak to participate fully. But one thing is for sure (and only a fool would try this) is to change the world from a non materialistic one to a ‘pure’ one. It’s impossible and goes against the grain of nature. You can never go back, only forwards. Humankind will eventually tire of materialism (death) and so will the planet, and the planet will start all over again with new life. You cannot bring pure meaning into a materialistic world, it’s contradictory.
I agree with harmonia and 22; this world is a test of the ego, to exhaust it, to overcome it, eventually. So if a person chooses to kill themselves, I think others react so badly to it cause they are insulted that someone has disregarded what they find precious. It’s the ultimate insult to your ego isn’t it? Like the big finger to all that is materialistic.
Mind you, I also agree with ‘memoryoftrees’ comment (which is pending) who says that some suicides could be a refusal to learn a lesson.
Lorraine, I’m afraid I am not much use with email friendships, but if you are desperate then by all means post your email address and I will listen to you for a while.
We mustn’t confuse all suicides with depression. It’s hard because society has taught us that depression is anything that shows an individual not wanting to participate in society. That is the biggest (and cleverest) obstacle placed before us, preventing us from discovering our true purpose and connecting with our souls.
However, the more connected to your soul you become, the more detached from this world you become, it’s a natural process and a natural death of human life. The ONLY natural death. Old age does not mean that you have ‘done your job’ – I firmly believe that old age is in fact a further punishment in our having not yet connected with our souls, and have lived a life of materialism. However, many of us can only connect with our souls in old age, once the material world has LEFT US. We are then somewhat neglected by society and forgotten (left to rot) and so we think more, we reach onside ourselves more. Some of us (old souls) do this at much younger ages.
The human body is the ego, a vehicle to experience all aspects of it. Nothing more. That ego tells you that it is something more of course and you believe it.
I’ve found the only way to begin to understand life is to simplify it. We are masters at complicating every little damn thing.
Life, mankind, and all the discussions about life, makes me think of a dancehall, a big glittery sparkly dancehall. Some dance for the sake of dancing and get lost in the music, whilst others are dancing a controlled dance and trying to give the dance a bigger meaning, dance a better dance than those around them. But what connects us all is that we all really expect to win a prize at the end of the dance, to get some answers as to why we are dancing anyway. We have invented gigantic reasons as to why we are all here doing this dance. Some of us tire quicker than others and some of us just don’t even want to dance and put on their coats and go in search of a restaurant or something else. No big deal. Except those tied to the dance, with sore feet, sweaty faces and complicated minds are so determined to be right that they will finish this dance if it kills them. And it will.
People die when they are meant to die, even if that does mean suicide. There is nothing wrong with anyone who wants to leave this world, doesn’t it give you a big hint that the only people who think that it is are those who are still very much connected to this existence? Please read my original post on this subject. I used to have fear of death even though I was ‘suicidal’. I didn’t like this world but the fear of leaving it meant I still had things to learn. Now I have no fear at all, and planning my death is the most beautiful feeling I have ever had.
How can the world be getting better? Hunger, war, rape and greed is ruling here bigger and stronger than it ever has. You have to be defected to think the world is getting any better.
OP: : ” giving up is certainly a change, but it doesn’t move anyone forward. i think it’s our job to act on behalf of the universe as a whole…”
What a crock of shit. ‘move anyone forward’ wtf is that? if a person sees the world so differently to others that he wants to kill himself, what kind of alternative is it to suggest that instead he ‘moves others forward’ are you actually suggesting that he attempts to get everyone else to see the world (or the system ie capitalism) badly? because if you are, that is very futile seen as the majority of the population LIKE the system or else it wouldn’t be in place. Also, the comment that he should ‘act on behalf of the universe as a whole’ isn’t he actually acting on behalf of the universe as a whole by killing himself seen as we are grossly OVER POPULATED.
Sorry but I just hate it when people say dumb shit about such a big issue. It is also really selfish and stupid to say that suicidal people should ‘change the world’ maybe the fucking happy living ones should change the world so that so many of the others wouldn’t rather die than be here!
This comment from memoryoftrees – “So it is very likely to be a young soul that is very involved in life here, and happy, it is the young soul that has the most lessons to learn, all hard ones – all being discovering that nothing of this material world can bring you happiness.”
True, nothing in this world brings happiness. But I find at the age of 28, that I in fact do find a bit of happiness in being melancholy. The problem is that this society doesn’t allow me to have my happiness in such a way because it is counterproductive to their system. I take small pleasures in many materialistic things, yes, but I know that they are few and far between, and that they are illusions good for distracting me when I don’t feel like thinking or participating in reality.
My natural state of being is considered sad, depressing, unnatural, by this society that has appointed itself as the dictator of all things “normal.” So because I prefer to be alone, or because I often think about death, or because I only smile when I feel like it, etc I am deemed a defective human, told that “there’s medication for that” or “you should talk to a therapist” when in fact there isn’t a damn thing wrong with me! I simply hate putting on a show for a bunch of phonies but it is the ONLY way to survive in this world because when you go to work, school, and even when you go to mom/dad’s house, you have to play the charade and you better be on queue & if you’re not, someone’s damn sure gonna swoop right in and tell you where you fucked up and how you should “fix” yourself.
It’s all bullshit and once you see it for what it truly is there is no going back. For some unknown reason I personally continue to prod along with my life even though I know it is meaningless. I torture myself every day by staying alive. Because I’m not allowed to BE ALIVE in the ways that I want to be. No, I must follow this status quo crap if I want to keep a roof over my head and food on my table. Basic necessities such as that have to be paid for with my own fucking sanity. This world is sick. The beauty is shadowed by the sickness. I love life so much…..but I want to exist in the way that I feel fulfilled not by the superficial standards of the majority. Fuck them all!
Anon13: You simply saying “I love life so much” speaks volumes to me, esp after your whole comment. I think there is a very big misconception here that only people who hate life are reclusive, ill, or suicidal – that is not always the case. You can actually be suicidal because you love life so much! And due to this you simply can’t bare to live this mechanical existence that we are expected to not only live, but enjoy!
Anon13: There is nothing wrong with you and I’m so pleased you haven’t fallen under that illusion. You are simply aware. I am not in the least bit surprised that you are suffering due to society here. You probably have very little ‘roots’ here, if any.
Good grief, this whole thread really has made me see things more clearly. Stuff that I knew somewhere inside of me, but has now been able to come clear. Hearing others talk this way is so uplifting and comforting. I have never held any worth over human life, whenever someone dies I feel so pleased for them, and a bit jealous if I’m totally honest. BUT, I love life!! I really love life! Thanks Anon13, you said what I couldn’t say. It’s society that I hate, not life. But society doesn’t allow us to just ‘be’ as you say ‘being melancholy’ – oh no that’s not allowed, heaven forbid you should not contribute to this vile society. And heaven forbid you should seek peace outside of it.
Niki: I think the comments you quoted about suicide are ignorant, I see they are not from yourself but another post, but that’s my opinion on it. I would like that person to give specific instructions of how the suicidal person should “move anyone forward” and what is this person doing about it also? I bet nothing at all!
(i think it’s our job to act on behalf of the universe as a whole…) quote
What a hypocritical thing to say haha! Humans are massively over populated and due to that we have irreversibly damaged the planet, so what does this person mean that one of us dying isn’t acting on behalf of the planet? This really made me laugh.
Can this person suggest what all the LIVING people are doing on behalf of the universe as a whole?
bump
“This world is sick. The beauty is shadowed by the sickness. I love life so much…..but I want to exist in the way that I feel fulfilled not by the superficial standards of the majority. Fuck them all!”
amen
agreed with harmonia on a lot of points
Thanks for bumping this post, this is food for my thoughts
Hi truthbetold 🙂 I saw your post “no longer suicidal” it’s awesome news. Have you seen anything lately from the other 15 users on this this page? I wonder if they have died.