Dear Whiskered — I hear your pain AND your intelligence. I just joined this site and apparently do not understand its purpose…however, I do understand YOUR pain. Please give it another day…that’s how I get by. Seriously. I may be ready to die, but I’m also ready to live…I just don’t understand how I should do it. Please hang in there for me…I promise I’ll write back to you….because I do care.
Hey, BB. Your comment must’ve gone into moderation, because I hadn’t seen it before.
But thank you for caring. I know with my head that a lot of people care about me but I always feel with my heart like very few people do. I know it’s illogical, but then again, I’ve never been logical. Yet another reason why I’m worthless.
My heart could tell me that the sky is green, and I’d believe it. Or, if not believe it, at least have to constantly fight the belief and reinforce what I should believe: that it’s blue.
I don’t plan on going too soon. Just wanted to tell you that, because I feel like that didn’t really come across. I have so much work to do before I can die. So don’t worry about me not giving it another day. I still have a lot of days left. I don’t want any of them, but there are surely worse problems to have, aren’t there? Like the reverse.
Oh, I meant your plan. I think the only way I could top that would be to invent time travel, go back in time, and prevent myself from ever existing. Which may be tough, considering most days I find it hard to get out of bed.
I wish I could erase my existence, but I will probably have to settle for merely destroying my creations. I don’t care too much if they’ll remember my face. A face is just a face. I hate my face but I hate my person more. I don’t want any part of me—who I am, as a person—to survive.
I feel that way about myself sometimes – wishing that who I am could just be cleanly erased from existence. Unfortunately (or not), a large part of who we are is left in other people. They’ll remember more than your face. They’ll remember who you are, to them. And I very much doubt what they remember will be as hate-worthy as you feel.
I really do want to believe that the reason they’ll remember me fondly is because I’m good, and because I deserve to be remembered fondly. But that just isn’t true, husk. I’m sorry. It can’t be true. Because I’m not good. I’m a liar and a manipulator. Always have been one. I am good at pretending to be a decent person; I wear masks. That’s who they’ll remember. The masks. Not me.
If they could ever peel the masks off me, they’d discover a person that they simply couldn’t help but to hate. I hope they never find me out. I hope I die before that happens.
So, preventing yourself from ever existing would cause an infinite time loop/paradox, that pretty much makes it impossible for you to prevent your existence… It’s like the most well known paradox in existence..
I feel the same about myself, and more. But on the question of what you deserve: even if you don’t deserve to be remembered fondly at this point in your life (assuming you self-image is totally accurate), what have you done that’s so awful that you can’t change that? For me, I know what that is. But I can’t see how lying and being manipulative (which most people do) gets you to the point where you can never deserve the love people have for you.
Maybe you don’t feel you can change. I get that. But if it’s a question of deserving it, I haven’t read anything from you that gives me the impression you don’t deserve to have a chance to be better in future.
It’s not anything I’ve done that forbids me from changing. It’s that I can’t change. This is just who I am. I’m going to be garbage always.
“I haven’t read anything from you that gives me the impression you don’t deserve to have a chance to be better in future.”
I know that you haven’t. Like I said, I lie. You all like me because I lie to you. I’ve got you all fooled. You all would hate me too, if you got to see inside me.
I can be incredibly honest here on SP, (more so than in real life) but still not entirely mask-free. I’m sorry.
@whiskered-fish:
I feel that way most of the time – that I’ll always just be this shitty, worthless person. Maybe we’re both right. Still, as long as we’re here, may as well keep plugging away at it, pointless as it seems. With life there’s possibility, however remote.
I doubt I’d hate the real you. Those I hate are normally either successful and carefree, or pushy and overbearing. Lies, manipulation, or even homicidal rage don’t really stoke my ire. I might not like you, but I can’t see me hating you. But then I’m an asshole, so that may not mean much.
I also doubt that you’d illicit hate from others on this site, unless you went out of your way to actively troll and torment people. You might not get so many supportive comments if you stopped being kind, considerate, and giving the impression of someone with a deep social conscience. I don’t know how important that is to you. Maybe worth thinking about being a bit more ‘you’, and testing it.
But I get it. As someone who also tries to project a veneer of decency (less successfully), there are things I would never talk about. Things I’ve actually done, rather than just thought about. Because I know there are many who would hate me for it, and should hate me for it. And I can’t take that kind of rejection. Even if people try to be understanding, hearing ‘I don’t condone what you did but’ or ‘your thoughts are disturbing but’ is too much for me to take.
Anyway, if you ever feel like you’d like to be less nice to someone, I’ll probably be around.
Sorry, husk. I’d fallen asleep last night. It was very late. Anyway.
Part of me agrees with you there, on that first point. But another part of me doesn’t. I don’t really think that I should keep plugging away at it, as you say. I know that there’s a possibility that I could get better as a person someday. But that possibility isn’t worth waiting on, if only because I continually do damage every day that I’m alive. Damage to others. Too much damage to make waiting for that remote possibility worth it. I’d do so much more good, and avoid doing so much more harm, if I just stopped living. Preferably sooner rather than later.
I’m genuinely sorry that you’re in that kind of situation. That is, what you described in your fourth paragraph. I can say that that’s happened to me only a few times. Memory that stands out the most: I was talking to a very close friend of mine (I’ve mentioned him on SP before) about these fantasies that I honestly don’t want to get into detail about. Just know that they were alarmingly depraved. But anyway, he said something like “Well, that definitely isn’t normal, and it isn’t a good thing, but I still don’t think you’re a monster.” And although that was astronomically kind and almost bewilderingly tolerant of him to say given the context, I was still very wounded. I didn’t communicate that to him though, because he did nothing wrong. If anything, he was way too sympathetic towards me. I’m a monster. And he was trying to tell me that he still didn’t hate me. Even after what I let him see of me. Who does that? And why? I still think about that, a lot.
Thanks for the talk, husk. I wish I could’ve given a better reply. But right now I have a migraine the size of Texas. Yet again.
I’ve wondered about this question for myself too… and I ended up deciding the opposite for myself. I want people to remember the music and the writing and the art I’ve tried creating, because I think that shows a better side of me than what they’d remember without it.
I think people might remember me more fondly if they had good memories of the things I made.
Curious (but honest) question: Do you want people to remember you fondly, or do you want them to hate you the same way you hate yourself?
I’m really glad that you came to that decision. I’d hate to lose all of those pieces of you, Cordless. And I’m not the only one. As I’m sure you already know.
I don’t know how to answer your question. It’s a really hard question. I’ve been thinking about it, really carefully, for a while now. I just don’t know. Both sound terrible and terrific. I guess I’d rather not be remembered at all. But short of killing everyone I’ve ever known, I don’t think that that could be accomplished.
I don’t like being hated. Least of all by people that I love. But I do deserve to be hated. And I concede to that, readily.
Hi Kat. You are articulate and appear to speak openly here, in my book those are qualities that are valued and should see you liked, not hated.
Anger is not an intrinsic character trait that we are born with, rather an emotion we experience which stems from reasons that are all products of perspective. Essentially I think that our environment is at fault, not you.
So if we identify the cause perhaps it is possible to make the relevant changes which should then lead to a beneficial outcome and as a by product also alter our behaviour.
I also used to commonly feel anger, mostly out of frustration over things that I could not directly control. I have since learnt to have more empathy and understating and as a result I very rarely experience anger.
People behave and events generally happen for a reason, if you can empathise and understand why they are that way and why they have happened then you are less likely to get frustrated.
Also, a humbling lesson that I have learnt is that we are at some point all fallible and that certain things are beyond our individual control and we must simply let those things go.
I do like the idea of leaving only footprints, the door to who you were remains only slightly open and someone can decide if they want to open it wider to discover who you really were.
Night in Atlantis, I just wanted you to know that I read this, and I thank you for the advice. I wish I could say more, but my head’s just not right tonight. I’ll read your comment again tomorrow. Hopefully, by then, I’ll be more receptive to positivity.
I try to avoid sounding too positive in a suicide forum. 🙂
Your fluidity in describing yourself shows in depth self reflection and a degree of insightfulness. I try to add another point of view, sometimes subjectively, sometimes objectively. I think a diverse information source is beneficial, It’s up to you to decide if it is pertinent.
Your existence has done nothing to me but made me smile. And i wish i could tell you how cool i think you are, because i think the world of you. Do you mind if i see some of your artwork before you destroy it? Like, through email or something..
And i’m not sure if you’ve noticed.. I’d be surprised if you haven’t. Normally I wouldn’t say anything about it, but since you’re asexual, i don’t think it matters. I’ve totally liked you for a bit now. I’d message Sportsballs and be like “She’s so funny,” and “she’s so nice”. And you’re also a great person to talk to.
I’ve kind of been wanting to do a deleting thing on my computer too. I know how you’re feeling.
Deep breaths Kat.. I know we’re (the sp community) not much here, but we’ll do everything we can to help you. We’re here for you.
I wish I knew how to respond to your profuse compliments, but I don’t. So I’ll just say thank you.
I’ll let you see my art if you really want to. So long as I believe that you won’t spread it around or anything after I’m dead. I’m generally okay with you all having pieces of me. But that’s because I know that those pieces will die with you. You all won’t spread them around or enshrine them. You’ll carry them quietly for a little bit and then let them dissolve in the dark. As well they ought.
If having them for a little while gives you comfort, then I won’t try to rob you all of that. So long as you don’t keep my memory alive for too long, or I’ll have to rise from the dead and chew y’all out.
I’m so, so deeply sorry for how attached to me you’ve gotten. I can’t begin to express my regret. I shouldn’t have let this happen. I’m going to hurt you. You know that, right? Well if you don’t, you should. I’m either going to die on you, or I’m going to let slip my masks and you’ll see the ugliness underneath. Or maybe I’ll royally fuck up and do both of those things. Or something else, some other third thing. Either way, I suggest you turn and run. I’m a grenade that’s just going to go off one day, and I’m begging you to get out of the blast zone. Please.
Don’t say that you guys “aren’t much.” As hopeless as I am, you all have helped and supported me more than anybody else in my entire life. I’d’ve been dead (or worse) quite some time ago if it hadn’t been for you all.
Oh Kat, i don’t think life is just about hurting. If you were to die, it would hurt me. But I honestly don’t believe in death. Not in a spiritual sense. Not in an afterlife sense either. I believe when you die, you return to being one with the world again.
I understand what you mean by grenade. But i would rather you die, with me knowing you, than you die, and be super sad that i never got the chance to. Please give me the chance to spend time with you while i can. If your best friend was about to move away, you’d spend a lot of time with them wouldn’t you? Because you know later on, you wont be able to. That’s how i feel.
Please, try to give me all the hurt you can, and I’ll return the hurt with a smile. I’ll say, “I really miss that Kat… But I’m so glad of the memories I have of her while she was still here. Her pain is gone now. She is at peace.”
We’re here for you always. Thank you, for being my friend
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32 comments
Dear Whiskered — I hear your pain AND your intelligence. I just joined this site and apparently do not understand its purpose…however, I do understand YOUR pain. Please give it another day…that’s how I get by. Seriously. I may be ready to die, but I’m also ready to live…I just don’t understand how I should do it. Please hang in there for me…I promise I’ll write back to you….because I do care.
BB
Hey, BB. Your comment must’ve gone into moderation, because I hadn’t seen it before.
But thank you for caring. I know with my head that a lot of people care about me but I always feel with my heart like very few people do. I know it’s illogical, but then again, I’ve never been logical. Yet another reason why I’m worthless.
My heart could tell me that the sky is green, and I’d believe it. Or, if not believe it, at least have to constantly fight the belief and reinforce what I should believe: that it’s blue.
I don’t plan on going too soon. Just wanted to tell you that, because I feel like that didn’t really come across. I have so much work to do before I can die. So don’t worry about me not giving it another day. I still have a lot of days left. I don’t want any of them, but there are surely worse problems to have, aren’t there? Like the reverse.
That right there is some impressive self-hatred. So much effort to go to! I salute you! 😉
Effort? Not at all. Hating me is so easy.
Oh, I meant your plan. I think the only way I could top that would be to invent time travel, go back in time, and prevent myself from ever existing. Which may be tough, considering most days I find it hard to get out of bed.
I’m sorry.
I wish I could erase my existence, but I will probably have to settle for merely destroying my creations. I don’t care too much if they’ll remember my face. A face is just a face. I hate my face but I hate my person more. I don’t want any part of me—who I am, as a person—to survive.
I feel that way about myself sometimes – wishing that who I am could just be cleanly erased from existence. Unfortunately (or not), a large part of who we are is left in other people. They’ll remember more than your face. They’ll remember who you are, to them. And I very much doubt what they remember will be as hate-worthy as you feel.
I really do want to believe that the reason they’ll remember me fondly is because I’m good, and because I deserve to be remembered fondly. But that just isn’t true, husk. I’m sorry. It can’t be true. Because I’m not good. I’m a liar and a manipulator. Always have been one. I am good at pretending to be a decent person; I wear masks. That’s who they’ll remember. The masks. Not me.
If they could ever peel the masks off me, they’d discover a person that they simply couldn’t help but to hate. I hope they never find me out. I hope I die before that happens.
So, preventing yourself from ever existing would cause an infinite time loop/paradox, that pretty much makes it impossible for you to prevent your existence… It’s like the most well known paradox in existence..
Yes, Trey. I realize that I could never actually do it.
Not that it’s worth discussing anyway. Being impossible and all. Time machines don’t exist.
I feel the same about myself, and more. But on the question of what you deserve: even if you don’t deserve to be remembered fondly at this point in your life (assuming you self-image is totally accurate), what have you done that’s so awful that you can’t change that? For me, I know what that is. But I can’t see how lying and being manipulative (which most people do) gets you to the point where you can never deserve the love people have for you.
Maybe you don’t feel you can change. I get that. But if it’s a question of deserving it, I haven’t read anything from you that gives me the impression you don’t deserve to have a chance to be better in future.
It’s not anything I’ve done that forbids me from changing. It’s that I can’t change. This is just who I am. I’m going to be garbage always.
“I haven’t read anything from you that gives me the impression you don’t deserve to have a chance to be better in future.”
I know that you haven’t. Like I said, I lie. You all like me because I lie to you. I’ve got you all fooled. You all would hate me too, if you got to see inside me.
I can be incredibly honest here on SP, (more so than in real life) but still not entirely mask-free. I’m sorry.
@whiskered-fish:
I feel that way most of the time – that I’ll always just be this shitty, worthless person. Maybe we’re both right. Still, as long as we’re here, may as well keep plugging away at it, pointless as it seems. With life there’s possibility, however remote.
I doubt I’d hate the real you. Those I hate are normally either successful and carefree, or pushy and overbearing. Lies, manipulation, or even homicidal rage don’t really stoke my ire. I might not like you, but I can’t see me hating you. But then I’m an asshole, so that may not mean much.
I also doubt that you’d illicit hate from others on this site, unless you went out of your way to actively troll and torment people. You might not get so many supportive comments if you stopped being kind, considerate, and giving the impression of someone with a deep social conscience. I don’t know how important that is to you. Maybe worth thinking about being a bit more ‘you’, and testing it.
But I get it. As someone who also tries to project a veneer of decency (less successfully), there are things I would never talk about. Things I’ve actually done, rather than just thought about. Because I know there are many who would hate me for it, and should hate me for it. And I can’t take that kind of rejection. Even if people try to be understanding, hearing ‘I don’t condone what you did but’ or ‘your thoughts are disturbing but’ is too much for me to take.
Anyway, if you ever feel like you’d like to be less nice to someone, I’ll probably be around.
Sorry, husk. I’d fallen asleep last night. It was very late. Anyway.
Part of me agrees with you there, on that first point. But another part of me doesn’t. I don’t really think that I should keep plugging away at it, as you say. I know that there’s a possibility that I could get better as a person someday. But that possibility isn’t worth waiting on, if only because I continually do damage every day that I’m alive. Damage to others. Too much damage to make waiting for that remote possibility worth it. I’d do so much more good, and avoid doing so much more harm, if I just stopped living. Preferably sooner rather than later.
I’m genuinely sorry that you’re in that kind of situation. That is, what you described in your fourth paragraph. I can say that that’s happened to me only a few times. Memory that stands out the most: I was talking to a very close friend of mine (I’ve mentioned him on SP before) about these fantasies that I honestly don’t want to get into detail about. Just know that they were alarmingly depraved. But anyway, he said something like “Well, that definitely isn’t normal, and it isn’t a good thing, but I still don’t think you’re a monster.” And although that was astronomically kind and almost bewilderingly tolerant of him to say given the context, I was still very wounded. I didn’t communicate that to him though, because he did nothing wrong. If anything, he was way too sympathetic towards me. I’m a monster. And he was trying to tell me that he still didn’t hate me. Even after what I let him see of me. Who does that? And why? I still think about that, a lot.
Thanks for the talk, husk. I wish I could’ve given a better reply. But right now I have a migraine the size of Texas. Yet again.
@whiskered-fish, I’m sorry you feel like this…
Don’t be. Isn’t your fault.
Love ya Fish.. Again, I’m sorry about how you’re feelig and I wish I could help you somehow :/
Thanks.
I’ve wondered about this question for myself too… and I ended up deciding the opposite for myself. I want people to remember the music and the writing and the art I’ve tried creating, because I think that shows a better side of me than what they’d remember without it.
I think people might remember me more fondly if they had good memories of the things I made.
Curious (but honest) question: Do you want people to remember you fondly, or do you want them to hate you the same way you hate yourself?
I’m really glad that you came to that decision. I’d hate to lose all of those pieces of you, Cordless. And I’m not the only one. As I’m sure you already know.
I don’t know how to answer your question. It’s a really hard question. I’ve been thinking about it, really carefully, for a while now. I just don’t know. Both sound terrible and terrific. I guess I’d rather not be remembered at all. But short of killing everyone I’ve ever known, I don’t think that that could be accomplished.
I don’t like being hated. Least of all by people that I love. But I do deserve to be hated. And I concede to that, readily.
I’m so tired of pretending. I just want to sleep, but nobody will let me.
Hi Kat. You are articulate and appear to speak openly here, in my book those are qualities that are valued and should see you liked, not hated.
Anger is not an intrinsic character trait that we are born with, rather an emotion we experience which stems from reasons that are all products of perspective. Essentially I think that our environment is at fault, not you.
So if we identify the cause perhaps it is possible to make the relevant changes which should then lead to a beneficial outcome and as a by product also alter our behaviour.
I also used to commonly feel anger, mostly out of frustration over things that I could not directly control. I have since learnt to have more empathy and understating and as a result I very rarely experience anger.
People behave and events generally happen for a reason, if you can empathise and understand why they are that way and why they have happened then you are less likely to get frustrated.
Also, a humbling lesson that I have learnt is that we are at some point all fallible and that certain things are beyond our individual control and we must simply let those things go.
I do like the idea of leaving only footprints, the door to who you were remains only slightly open and someone can decide if they want to open it wider to discover who you really were.
* understanding. Ignore my typos, I’m going to have another cup of coffee!
Night in Atlantis, I just wanted you to know that I read this, and I thank you for the advice. I wish I could say more, but my head’s just not right tonight. I’ll read your comment again tomorrow. Hopefully, by then, I’ll be more receptive to positivity.
That’s kind of you Kat, thank you.
I try to avoid sounding too positive in a suicide forum. 🙂
Your fluidity in describing yourself shows in depth self reflection and a degree of insightfulness. I try to add another point of view, sometimes subjectively, sometimes objectively. I think a diverse information source is beneficial, It’s up to you to decide if it is pertinent.
Dear Kat.
Your existence has done nothing to me but made me smile. And i wish i could tell you how cool i think you are, because i think the world of you. Do you mind if i see some of your artwork before you destroy it? Like, through email or something..
And i’m not sure if you’ve noticed.. I’d be surprised if you haven’t. Normally I wouldn’t say anything about it, but since you’re asexual, i don’t think it matters. I’ve totally liked you for a bit now. I’d message Sportsballs and be like “She’s so funny,” and “she’s so nice”. And you’re also a great person to talk to.
I’ve kind of been wanting to do a deleting thing on my computer too. I know how you’re feeling.
Deep breaths Kat.. I know we’re (the sp community) not much here, but we’ll do everything we can to help you. We’re here for you.
*group hugs’ Kat*
I wish I knew how to respond to your profuse compliments, but I don’t. So I’ll just say thank you.
I’ll let you see my art if you really want to. So long as I believe that you won’t spread it around or anything after I’m dead. I’m generally okay with you all having pieces of me. But that’s because I know that those pieces will die with you. You all won’t spread them around or enshrine them. You’ll carry them quietly for a little bit and then let them dissolve in the dark. As well they ought.
If having them for a little while gives you comfort, then I won’t try to rob you all of that. So long as you don’t keep my memory alive for too long, or I’ll have to rise from the dead and chew y’all out.
I’m so, so deeply sorry for how attached to me you’ve gotten. I can’t begin to express my regret. I shouldn’t have let this happen. I’m going to hurt you. You know that, right? Well if you don’t, you should. I’m either going to die on you, or I’m going to let slip my masks and you’ll see the ugliness underneath. Or maybe I’ll royally fuck up and do both of those things. Or something else, some other third thing. Either way, I suggest you turn and run. I’m a grenade that’s just going to go off one day, and I’m begging you to get out of the blast zone. Please.
Don’t say that you guys “aren’t much.” As hopeless as I am, you all have helped and supported me more than anybody else in my entire life. I’d’ve been dead (or worse) quite some time ago if it hadn’t been for you all.
I wont show a soul your art.
Oh Kat, i don’t think life is just about hurting. If you were to die, it would hurt me. But I honestly don’t believe in death. Not in a spiritual sense. Not in an afterlife sense either. I believe when you die, you return to being one with the world again.
I understand what you mean by grenade. But i would rather you die, with me knowing you, than you die, and be super sad that i never got the chance to. Please give me the chance to spend time with you while i can. If your best friend was about to move away, you’d spend a lot of time with them wouldn’t you? Because you know later on, you wont be able to. That’s how i feel.
Please, try to give me all the hurt you can, and I’ll return the hurt with a smile. I’ll say, “I really miss that Kat… But I’m so glad of the memories I have of her while she was still here. Her pain is gone now. She is at peace.”
We’re here for you always. Thank you, for being my friend
I’m going to cry now. Oh, who am I kidding. I’ve been crying. But now I’m crying more. And my stupid glottis hurts.
You’re welcome, darkwillow. Thank you too.
Kat.. Cry why?
Happy tears and sad ones. Why are you such a good friend?
That’s partly good 🙂 I always feel so much better when i talk to you. You’re super amazing!